The Book of Mormon

[i believe in tranquility]

The Book of Mormon actually preaches AGAINST polygamy and elevates the Native Americans to being a chosen people of God. I don't think you know what you are talking about.

Alot of the Book of Mormon DOES NOT teach racism. In fact, the Book of Mormon says the following:

2 Nephi 26:33 For none of these iniquities come of the Lord; for he doeth that which is good among the children of men; and he doeth nothing save it be plain unto the children of men; and he inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile.

Why is polyamy allowed in Colorado City under beilfs of Mormonism. Im not trying to be offensive...i just want to ask a few questions about Mormonism.


Also tell me if this does not appear do be racist:

1 Nephi 11:8 And it came to pass that the Spirit said unto me: Look! And I looked and beheld a tree; and it was like unto the tree which my father had seen; and the beauty thereof was far beyond, yea, exceeding of all beauty; and the whiteness thereof did exceed the whiteness of the driven snow.



1 Nephi 11:13 And I beheld the city of Nazareth; and in the city of Nazareth I beheld a virgin, and she was exceedingly fair and white.



1 Nephi 12:23 And it came to pass that I beheld, after they had dwindled in unbelief they became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations. (Joe Smith calls dark skinned people ugly, filthy, lazy, and perverts.)



1 Nephi 13:15 And I beheld the Spirit of the Lord, that it was upon the Gentiles, and they did prosper and obtain the land for their inheritance; and I beheld that they were white, and exceedingly fair and beautiful, like unto my people before they were slain.



2 Nephi 5:21 For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.



2 Nephi 30:6 And then shall they rejoice; for they shall know that it is a blessing unto them from the hand of God; and their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a pure white (1830 edition) and a delightsome people.



Jacob 3:8 O my brethren, I fear that unless ye shall repent of your sins that their skins will be whiter than yours, when ye shall be brought with them before the throne of God.



Alma 3:6 And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob, and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.



3 Nephi 2:15 And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites.



Mormon 5:15 And also that the seed of this people may more fully believe his gospel, which shall go forth unto them from the Gentiles; for this people shall be scattered, and shall become a dark, a filthy, and a loathsome people, beyond the description of that which ever hath been amongst us, yea, even that which hath been among the Lamanites, and this because of their unbelief and idolatry.







these seem pretty racist to me...and i would be considered by commonfolk as having "black" ancestry. so in a sense i take offense.


i have found no racism in the teachings of Jesus...i do realize that there are racist quotes from other references in the bible, primarly in the 'OLD' test.



-----------------------------------

Jesus probably looked Jewish.

what skin color man: pale/peach, tan/bronze, black/dark...





and no i dont attend a mormon church...i attend a lutheran church...even tho i dont consider myself to be lutheran...i consider my self to folo Ho Hodos.

 

[i believe in tranquility]

one more ?:

do you think that "God" is male? white?

what do you think God looks like...

ill tell u what i think after u.

 

[Aqualung]

Why is polyamy allowed in Colorado City under beilfs of Mormonism. Im not trying to be offensive...i just want to ask a few questions about Mormonism.

Those guys aren't mormons, and if they say they are, they're lying. Anybody who practices polygamy gets excomunicated.

1 Nephi 11:8 And it came to pass that the Spirit said unto me: Look! And I looked and beheld a tree; and it was like unto the tree which my father had seen; and the beauty thereof was far beyond, yea, exceeding of all beauty; and the whiteness thereof did exceed the whiteness of the driven snow.

considering that that's not even talking about people, I don't know why you think it's racisit. If I described an apple as being excedingly red would that make me racist? No. Apples are supposed to be red. Whatever this tree was, it was supposed to be white.

1 Nephi 11:13 And I beheld the city of Nazareth; and in the city of Nazareth I beheld a virgin, and she was exceedingly fair and white.

So? Once again, she was white. I'm white. Does it make me racist to point out that fact?

1 Nephi 12:23 And it came to pass that I beheld, after they had dwindled in unbelief they became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations. (Joe Smith calls dark skinned people ugly, filthy, lazy, and perverts.)

Dark didn't refer to their skin colour.

1 Nephi 13:15 And I beheld the Spirit of the Lord, that it was upon the Gentiles, and they did prosper and obtain the land for their inheritance; and I beheld that they were white, and exceedingly fair and beautiful, like unto my people before they were slain.

We (gentiles) are white. Since when did it become racist to point out a fact?

2 Nephi 5:21 For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.

I don't know what the "skin of blackness" was, but I doubt it was physical.
The rest is pretty much all the same.

what skin color man: pale/peach, tan/bronze, black/dark...

Do you not know what skin colour jews had?

 

[Aqualung]

one more ?:

do you think that "God" is male? white?

what do you think God looks like...

ill tell u what i think after u.

I think he is male (after all he is refferred to as the father), but I have no idea what he looks like. You know, right on the second row from the bottom of your keyboard, one on the right side and one on the left side, there is a key. It's called a "shift" key. It make letters capital, so you don't have to sacrifice proper style just because you're using a keyboard. And the pronoun is "you" not "u"

 

[i believe in tranquility]

dude do YOU really think I care about how I type?
that is completely beyond the point...


Anyways just for you I will attempt the slow method of typing..

So? Once again, she was white. I'm white. Does it make me racist to point out that fact?

if it is referring to the virging mary...it is completely incorrect...look at the people of the land today and back then.....TAN (neither black nor white).....the virgin was not white.

Dark didn't refer to their skin colour.

how can you possibly say that?
It says clearly: and shall become a dark, a filthy, and a loathsome people


-----------------------


And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites.

it is implying that people with non white skin are cursed......

Do you not know what skin colour jews had

i know, i was simply asking what color the person i was writing to knew.

TAN

 

[i believe in tranquility]

ok you said he is male right?


Just making sure.


also if God said he made humankind in the image of himself, wouldnt that imply that God looks somewhat like a humanbeing? (not arguing anything here...just building up grounds for presenting a hyp)

 

[linwood]

Why is polyamy allowed in Colorado City under beilfs of Mormonism. Im not trying to be offensive...i just want to ask a few questions about Mormonism.

[font=Trebuchet MS,Arial,Helvetica]The Law of Abraham and the Law of Sarah[/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]This Law authorizes polygyny (a.k.a. plural marriage involving one man and multiple women. This is a more accurate term that the more commonly used "polygamy" which can refer to any type of multiple marriage). [/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]The LDS recognizes four sacred texts as divinely inspired and authoritative scripture. These are called the "Standard Works." Unfortunately, they give three mutually exclusive teachings about polygyny:
[/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]The reference to Sarah came from the story of Abraham and Sarai (later renamed Sarah) in the Bible's book of Genesis. Sarai told her husband Abraham to engage in sexual intercourse with her female slave Hagar -- presumably against Hagar's wishes -- in order to conceive children. Being totally lacking in power, Hagar could not refuse what was apparently repeated rapes, until she became pregnant:[/font]

 

[Aqualung]

dude do YOU really think I care about how I type?
that is completely beyond the point...

You ought to. People don't respect your opinions as much if you type like a third grader.

Anyways just for you I will attempt the slow method of typing..

It doesn't appear to be working very well.

if it is referring to the virging mary...it is completely incorrect...look at the people of the land today and back then.....TAN (neither black nor white).....the virgin was not white.

A) were you there? B) Like the Bible, the BoM uses literary technique. People think of white things as being pure (like snow that's still white, or shirts that are still white).

how can you possibly say that?
It says clearly: and shall become a dark, a filthy, and a loathsome people

Yeah, "dark people," not "darkskinned people"

And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites.

it is implying that people with non white skin are cursed......

It's implying that those people (if indeed this is literal and not literary technique, which it more likely is) were cursed, not that all non-whites. But, once again, it's literary technique. They were just marveling that their change of heart showed in their outward appearance, not that their skin literally became white.

ok you said he is male right?


Just making sure.

How kind of you to look out for me.

also if God said he made humankind in the image of himself, wouldnt that imply that God looks somewhat like a humanbeing? (not arguing anything here...just building up grounds for presenting a hyp)

Indeed it would.

 

[i believe in tranquility]

People think of white things as being pure (like snow that's still white, or shirts that are still white).

ok so that means that the opposite of white is black..therefore, things that are black whether it is clothes, skin, dirt, etc. are the opposite of pure: unpure.


Ok. To move on to the mail figure of God, I would like to say thank you for your opinion and alterative view. I appreiciate it and respect it (seriously).

So about God being male:
The dominant voice of God the Father comes from Jesus. So to analyze his speech we must look at his circumstances. Jesus already had a biological mother (the Virgin Mary), and Joseph is viewed as Jesus's "step" father. This leaves no other solution for Jesus to call "God" his father. But here is where I think that people have made somewhat of a mistake. Just because Jesus called God his father, does not imply that we have to, because we have bioligical mothers AND fathers. The Jews said that God is repectabely indescrible. Which makes perfect sense since God is the "unknown". So to get an understanding of God we can take a look at creation. Now make sure that you note the difference in the two DIFFERENT creation stories in Genesis. This is shown in the most common bible accross the church (New Revised standard Version)

The first:

Genesis: 1:26-27

And God said, "Let is make humankind in our image, according to ourl ikeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the world animals of the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth."

So God created humankind in his image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them...
------------------------------------------------------

First, in the hebrew language which the Old Testament was translated from, the word "man" refers to humankind. The word "he" translates into Yahweh, who was decribes by the Jews to have no sex (because of humans incapability to describe there creator).

Second, we see that God created humankind in his image. This possibley can mean that God has a human figure to him (something that I wouldnt doubt, because of it seems to be clearly stated). But the most important thing to draw from what is said here is that he created humankind in his own imageimplying that humans INCLUDE FEMALES, this means that God could possibly MALE and FEMALE or MALE nor FEMALE, i would tend to lean towards the NOR, becasue again GOD is indescrible.



The SECOND CREATION STORY: Genesis 2:15

"Another Account of the Creation:

The Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to till it and keep it..."

This creation story is Known as the Adam and Eve story (COMPLETELY different from the 7 day creation story).

As most know, this creation story states that God made Adam, and through Adam God made Eve (out of man). This implies that woman should be in service of man (which alot of people, including my slef, beilve is incorrect).

 

[Aqualung]

ok so that means that the opposite of white is black..therefore, things that are black whether it is clothes, skin, dirt, etc. are the opposite of pure: unpure.

No, there's not "whether it's this or that." The white=pure is not applicable in all cases.

Ok. To move on to the mail figure of God,

Is god a postman? :areyoucra

I would like to say thank you for your opinion and alterative view. I appreiciate it and respect it (seriously).

You're welcome.

The dominant voice of God the Father comes from Jesus. So to analyze his speech we must look at his circumstances.

Hey, hey, hey. Why are we analising his speech. Either you're going to tie this in to the BoM really soon, or you're going to have to start a new thread (which I would love, because this debate is enjoyable).

Jesus already had a biological mother (the Virgin Mary), and Joseph is viewed as Jesus's "step" father.

Okaaay...

This leaves no other solution for Jesus to call "God" his father. But here is where I think that people have made somewhat of a mistake. Just because Jesus called God his father, does not imply that we have to, because we have bioligical mothers AND fathers. The Jews said that God is repectabely indescrible. Which makes perfect sense since God is the "unknown". So to get an understanding of God we can take a look at creation. Now make sure that you note the difference in the two DIFFERENT creation stories in Genesis. This is shown in the most common bible accross the church (New Revised standard Version)

I competely do not follow you at all. But, I started a thread about the two different creation stories here where we can discuss this.

Seriously, you should either start a new thread or take this up in the thread I mentioned, because it sounds intersting.

 

[mormonman]

[font=Trebuchet MS,Arial,Helvetica]The Law of Abraham and the Law of Sarah[/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]This Law authorizes polygyny (a.k.a. plural marriage involving one man and multiple women. This is a more accurate term that the more commonly used "polygamy" which can refer to any type of multiple marriage). [/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]The LDS recognizes four sacred texts as divinely inspired and authoritative scripture. These are called the "Standard Works." Unfortunately, they give three mutually exclusive teachings about polygyny:
[/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]The reference to Sarah came from the story of Abraham and Sarai (later renamed Sarah) in the Bible's book of Genesis. Sarai told her husband Abraham to engage in sexual intercourse with her female slave Hagar -- presumably against Hagar's wishes -- in order to conceive children. Being totally lacking in power, Hagar could not refuse what was apparently repeated rapes, until she became pregnant:[/font]

Are you stupid?? Yes the church DID practice polygamy. Are you happy??? If you post please know what your talking about. WE DON'T PRACTICE POLYGAMY!!! :banghead3 PEOPLE THAT PRACTICE POLYGAMY ARE EXCOMMUNICATED. You seem kind of slow on this point, so I'll say it again. PEOPLE THAT PRACTICE POLYGAMY ARE EXCOMMUNICATED. There, do you get it now???

 

[linwood]

Are you stupid?? Yes the church DID practice polygamy. Are you happy??? If you post please know what your talking about. WE DON'T PRACTICE POLYGAMY!!! :banghead3 PEOPLE THAT PRACTICE POLYGAMY ARE EXCOMMUNICATED. You seem kind of slow on this point, so I'll say it again. PEOPLE THAT PRACTICE POLYGAMY ARE EXCOMMUNICATED. There, do you get it now???

Mormonman, please try and maintain a semblence of personal control for a change.

I answered an inquiry about why the Mormon Church in some places still practices polygyny.

This laws of Abraham and Sarah are why.

I can understand your embarrassment of these "laws" written by your prophet but there`s no need to bust an artery over it.

I also don`t see what the big deal is with polygamy in the first place.
I see nothing wrong with it.

 

[Fade]

Are you stupid?? Yes the church DID practice polygamy. Are you happy??? If you post please know what your talking about. WE DON'T PRACTICE POLYGAMY!!! :banghead3 PEOPLE THAT PRACTICE POLYGAMY ARE EXCOMMUNICATED. You seem kind of slow on this point, so I'll say it again. PEOPLE THAT PRACTICE POLYGAMY ARE EXCOMMUNICATED. There, do you get it now???

Interesting that. Does the fact that your faiths prophet was one not give you cause for concern? I mean, surely you are being a little hypocritical? Why excommunicate people who are simply following their leader?

Yes we must be the ones who are stupid.

PS. what's wrong with polygamy? If I could convince two chicks to marry me and not be jealous of each other, I'd definitely go for it.

 

[sojourner]

A passage from BoM was cited with following commentary:

if it is referring to the virging mary...it is completely incorrect...look at the people of the land today and back then.....TAN (neither black nor white).....the virgin was not white.

Aqualung replied:
"A) were you there? B) Like the Bible, the BoM uses literary technique. People think of white things as being pure (like snow that's still white, or shirts that are still white)."

My question is this: How do you determine whic scriptures in either Bible or BoM are literalistic, and which are metaphoric? Right now, it appears that some inidividuals "turn on" and "turn off" the literalistic interpretation, according to what makes the scriptures "fit" belief.

For example, you're saying that this cited passage is metaphoric, but several LDS posters have cited Adam and Eve as being real people. How do you make that determination? What evidences either stance? Right now, the logic seems to be an "interpretation of convenience," which is not helping the Mormon case here. If you could explain the method and esablish some sense of continuity in interpretive model, your credibility would increase here.

 

[Aqualung]

I answered an inquiry about why the Mormon Church in some places still practices polygyny.

I think why he is mad is because the mormon church does not practice polygamy.

 

[Aqualung]

For example, you're saying that this cited passage is metaphoric, but several LDS posters have cited Adam and Eve as being real people. How do you make that determination? What evidences either stance? Right now, the logic seems to be an "interpretation of convenience," which is not helping the Mormon case here. If you could explain the method and esablish some sense of continuity in interpretive model, your credibility would increase here.

Interpretation of convenience?! Bosh!

 

[Fade]

Interpretation of convenience?! Bosh!

Bish! And Piffle.

But he's right it is an inteerpretation of convenience. Refute please?

 

[Aqualung]

You can't refute a blanket statement like that. He never gave me any reason to think that it was just an interpretation of convenience. I need something to work from if I'm to refute anything.

 

[Fade]

You could try reading the post?

 

[sojourner]

I thought the question was straightforward: What are the criteria you use in determining whether a passage is literalistic or metaphoric?

[edit] And can you show consistency in the application of those criteria, throughout your scriptural interpretive process?