The Catholic Church should be shut down

[oldbadger]

That's true, and I've since changed my opinion since posting the OP. But, the problem is...they're not being indicted. They're not being arrested, and they're not being ''defrocked.'' Some have been, but many are not. Some may be dead, but many are old in age, and that shouldn't be a reason to not arrest them. But, still, what do we do when we don't see justice being carried out?

I acknowledge and admire your change of opinion.
It's true........ so many people do such bad things that will never be discovered until too late. We have all known people whose actions and crimes were despicable but who never faced any kind of justice. The worst cases I can think of were about those people who lead ethnic cleansing, mass murders, and who never faced justice or retribution. The first to my mind this morning are Bosnia, Rwanda and Nigeria......... of course we British and our manipulations were probably the main foundation for the Rwanda massacres which came after we were long gone.

The things that Human Beings are capable of, and do, and yet I never met a human who didn't think that they themselves were 'a good person at heart'. I'm reminded of a gangster who robbed and murdered all his life, and whose last words before execution were 'And this is what you get for trying to help people'.

Priests in the Catholic Church who abused anybody in any way do pay in one way....... as they age they can sit down and think back............ and burn in their arm-chairs. Oh yes....... they burn.... inside.

 

[blü 2]

The Roman Catholic Church should not be permitted to operate any longer. It’s a crime ridden organization masquerading as a religion.

The government should shut this organization down because it has been committing crimes for decades.

What are your thoughts?

The RCC has been sawing away at its own throat with a broken bottle from the start of these scandals, back when Wojtyła was Pope. It was noted at the time that he didn't even start to think there was a problem until US donations to the RCC took a massive slide; and even then he was thinking how to avoid the scandal, not how to address the problem. Ratzinger, a vanilla version of an ineffectual and out of tune leader, after several years of coaching started to get his lines right but did nothing. Not till Borgoglio have we seen action, and though it's clearly not big enough or fast enough, it's several orders of magnitude ahead of anything before it, if for no other reason than that he really would like to solve it.

The cultural aspect of this has been a rock-solid confidence in the church's true nature as a law unto itself ─ it's obvious that God's agents are far above mere mortal governments, so the police forces and lawmakers of the world can all ─ ahm ─ go away and mind their own business. It's taken the sheer scale of the collapse in church authority in the USA, Canada, Ireland, Belgium, Australia, Chile, Argentina, on and on, for anyone in authority to notice the ship was going down.

An organization of that size will never be perfect, and will continue to face the conflict of considering the parishioner's interests as against the church's. Still, Borgoglio deserves a chance, and it's silly to think that the billion or so Roman Catholics around the world are somehow essentially evil. Back the only time I was in a Catholic hospital, it was high morale, first class attention from administration, surgeons, doctors, nurses, cleaners and volunteers and as you can see, I was impressed.

Just keep fining the ones that get caught, and delivering chunky verdicts in damages, and the church administration will continue to learn that God can speak through money.

(I add that it isn't just the RCCs whose clergy have a share of rotten apples ─ not by a long shot.)

 

[Nigel Hoath]

I live in hope that one day the Catholic church will admit women priests and allow priests to marry. I am convinced that these measures would both solve the problem of the shortage of priests and normalise the sexuality of the priesthood. Celibacy is a wonderful romantic ideal, but I feel sure it leads in practice to a lot of twisted and repressed individuals, who can easily blow a fuse, with disastrous consequences.

And you have stated here clearly a base issue and a resolution. And if a small group of people who control the RC cannot stop maintaining this source of evil then their power base should be destroyed. That does not damage the RC as a religion, it strengths it.

Maybe away from the OPs question by why do so few members of the RC church not see solutions and demand their implementation?

 

[Mock Turtle]

I honestly can't decide what's more immoral, when people do that kind of thing or when people try to downplay that kind of thing.

It's often a double-whammy for the kids, and more than enough for many to distrust adults in the future. Some adults probably just can't go there to understand the issues or just won't believe the children. It appears that children rarely lie about such things. Institutions have no excuses.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

So according to the likes of Cardinal Burke, the child abuse scandal can be blamed squarely on the the Church's second oldest enemy: the gays.

Is this attitude indicative of how the upper echelons feel? Maybe; maybe not. To put things into context: this guy was demoted by the Pope for being too homophobic.

To be honest though, it does seem to me to be an indicator that the Church, as an organisation, isn't actually sorry for what it's done - it's only sorry it got caught.

 

[Altfish]

If the Catholic Church was a proper business, ie dealing with real customers who have choice, paying taxes, open governance, etc. It'd have gone bust years ago.

As it is, in the Western world, it is on a steep decline that it'll struggle to turn round. It will be interesting to see what happens in Ireland which is due a papal visit shortly. The size of the crowds and the size of the protests will both be closely monitored.

 

[paarsurrey]

But, they're not being punished. That's the problem.

Then make it a mission to start a movement to change the law as per the constitution of the land, and it should be done peacefully, please.

Regards

 

[Mock Turtle]

P.S. I wonder if I am alone in finding this Ringo Starr song creepy: Ringo Starr - You're Sixteen Lyrics | MetroLyrics. But that was written back in 1970.......when he was, er, thirty......

Johnny Burnette originally (1960s, and from America), and not uncommon in years gone by - where they were a bit more honest about such things:

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Is there resources on the side of The Church? Their comments about sexual abuse? I can't find any but those attacking the church.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I have read some of the above reports.
No, I do not believe that the Catholic Church should be shut down.
There must be millions of very decent, honest people in this Church.

If they’re really decent and honest, then they’ll agree that the Church’s victims should be compensated even if the Church is bankrupted in the process, and they’ll agree that the criminals within the Church should be made to answer for their crimes even if this leaves the Church leadership a hollowed-out shell.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Still, Borgoglio deserves a chance, and it's silly to think that the billion or so Roman Catholics around the world are somehow essentially evil.

He’s been Pope for five years. He isn’t exactly new on the scene any more.

And Catholics aren’t exactly evil; they just continue to tithe to a church that uses those tithes to fund some very uncharitable things, like denying compensation to abuse victims.

Back the only time I was in a Catholic hospital, it was high morale, first class attention from administration, surgeons, doctors, nurses, cleaners and volunteers and as you can see, I was impressed.

Where I live, Catholic hospitals are funded by the government just like the secular ones and provide the same levels of service. The only difference is that the Catholic hospitals are deficient in meeting normal, accepted standards for family planning, fertility, and palliative care.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

The Roman Catholic Church should not be permitted to operate any longer. It’s a crime ridden organization masquerading as a religion. The sex abuse cases that continue to pour into the media are horrific and mind blowing. Mind blowing that the cover ups are all through the hierarchy. Any other organization in the secular sphere would be shut down. And people would be arrested. Everyone who was complicit in this, should be arrested. Every priest, every bishop, every cardinal, even the pope if that’s the case. Bill Cosby is 80 years old and stood trial, age should have nothing to do with these dudes being allowed to get away with these crimes.

The government should shut this organization down because it has been committing crimes for decades.

What are your thoughts?

No, the Catholic Church should not be shut down. The percentage of priests who have committed these atrocities is very small, likely as small or smaller than the percentage of Muslims who are terrorists. Should the Muslim religion be "shut down" because of the terrorist atrocities committed by Muslims?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No, the Catholic Church should not be shut down. The percentage of priests who have committed these atrocities is very small, likely as small or smaller than the percentage of Muslims who are terrorists. Should the Muslim religion be "shut down" because of the terrorist atrocities committed by Muslims?

Do you seriously believe that more than 7% of Muslims are terrorists?

7 Percent Of All Catholic Priests Were Alleged Sex Offenders: Royal Commission

And we aren’t just talking about the abuse itself; we’re also talking about the cover-up, which implicates most bishops, cardinals, Vatican administrators, etc.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Do you seriously believe that more than 7% of Muslims are terrorists?

7 Percent Of All Catholic Priests Were Alleged Sex Offenders: Royal Commission

And we aren’t just talking about the abuse itself; we’re also talking about the cover-up, which implicates most bishops, cardinals, Vatican administrators, etc.

I don't think the 7% figure for priests is true worldwide.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't think the 7% figure for priests is true worldwide.

What number do you think is true and how did you arrive at it?

The recent report on priestly abuse in 6 dioceses in Pennsylvania found more than 300 priests who had abused children:

Scathing report reveals 300 Pennsylvania Catholic priests sexually abused over 1,000 children

I can’t find the number of priests in Pennsylvania, but I seriously doubt it’s more than 4,286 (the total number that would make 300 be 7%), considering how many priests there are in the whole US:

FAQ

 

[Deidre]

The general apathy from people about priest abuse is odd to me. So many believe can’t believe that this went on but it did and still is. Pope Francis came out today condemning it and apologizing to all Catholics. At least he believes the stats.

 

[Deidre]

I don't think the 7% figure for priests is true worldwide.

Why?

 

[GoodbyeDave]

I'm obviously no enthusiast for Catholicism, but too many people talk as if it's the only religious body sheltering pedophiles. We have had one mention of the Methodists, so how about a broader survey?
Evangelicals:
There is More Sexual Abuse in The Protestant Churches Than Catholic
Jews:
Rabbis' absolute power: how sex abuse tore apart Australia's Orthodox Jewish community
Confronting sexual abuse in the Jewish community
Islam:
Islamic schools' child abuse risk

 

[oldbadger]

If they’re really decent and honest, then they’ll agree that the Church’s victims should be compensated even if the Church is bankrupted in the process, and they’ll agree that the criminals within the Church should be made to answer for their crimes even if this leaves the Church leadership a hollowed-out shell.

ok........ could you tell us all what you think would be a fair average pay-out to anybody who has ever been sexually assaulted by a priest, even once?

Waiting..............

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

ok........ could you tell us all what you think would be a fair average pay-out to anybody who has ever been sexually assaulted by a priest, even once?

Waiting..............

It’s not about what I want; it’s about the trends I see in judgements.

For instance, the average payout in this listing works out to about $692,000 per victim, with some judgements going higher than $4 million per victim:

Settlements and bankruptcies in Catholic sex abuse cases - Wikipedia

Have a look at how many judgements on that list weren’t paid out because the diocese went bankrupt. At the very least, as a starting point, I think those judgements should be paid out by the Vatican.