The Challenge in the Qur'an

[Fatihah]

Why?
That post contains not even a hint of evidence, let alone any proof.

For you to claim otherwise merely shows just how dishonest you really are.
Of course, I have come to expect such dishonesty from proven liars such as yourself.

Response: Likewise.

 

[McBell]

Response: Likewise.

I see a word..
But where is your proof?

 

[Sola'lor]

Response: I never said that muslims won't accept you beating the challenge so your point is of no substance.

But I thought that's what you said here:

Response: I don't know what is meant here by better because as muslims, we say the challenge is impossible regardless.

Maybe I'm misreading.

 

[Fatihah]

But I thought that's what you said here:


Maybe I'm misreading.

Response: I believe you overlooked the context. You was asking whether it would be better to write in the language of the people. So in response I said that to produce something like the qur'an would mean in arabic and that the arabic itself is a miracle. So if one chooses not to use arabic, they won't know that specific miracle but irregardless of the language, the challenge is still impossible. But to say that something is impossible does not mean that we won't accept differently if proven wrong.

 

[Sola'lor]

Response: I believe you overlooked the context. You was asking whether it would be better to write in the language of the people. So in response I said that to produce something like the qur'an would mean in arabic and that the arabic itself is a miracle. So if one chooses not to use arabic, they won't know that specific miracle but irregardless of the language, the challenge is still impossible. But to say that something is impossible does not mean that we won't accept differently if proven wrong.

Ok, I think I get what you're saying. the challenge is impossible if it is not done in Arabic. However if it is done in arabic then it has a chance.

 

[Fatihah]

Ok, I think I get what you're saying. the challenge is impossible if it is not done in Arabic. However if it is done in arabic then it has a chance.

Response: Not quite. What I'm saying is that the qur'an itself is full of miracles. It's arabic being one of them. The arabic of the qur'an is not like any other arabic. So just the arabic alone was proof that the qur'an is from Allah. So without you writing it in arabic, you don't learn the miracle within the arabic. However, the arabic is not it's only miracle. Another miracle is it's divine inspiration and guardianship. This particular miracle, explained in post 651, does not require arabic. No matter what language you write it in, you still will not be able to match the miracle explained in post 651. I hope that's clearer.

 

[McBell]

It is amazing what passes for a miracle these days.....

 

[Gharib]

It is amazing what passes for a miracle these days.....

what does?

 

[kai]

Response: Not quite. What I'm saying is that the qur'an itself is full of miracles. It's arabic being one of them. The arabic of the qur'an is not like any other arabic. So just the arabic alone was proof that the qur'an is from Allah. So without you writing it in arabic, you don't learn the miracle within the arabic. However, the arabic is not it's only miracle. Another miracle is it's divine inspiration and guardianship. This particular miracle, explained in post 651, does not require arabic. No matter what language you write it in, you still will not be able to match the miracle explained in post 651. I hope that's clearer.

You must understand that all these miracles are only miracles only to Muslims, its a matter of faith! The Arab imperial stamp is so indelible that they have you believing that Arabic itself is a miracle and the language of heaven?

 

[England my lionheart]

Response: Not quite. What I'm saying is that the qur'an itself is full of miracles. It's arabic being one of them. The arabic of the qur'an is not like any other arabic. So just the arabic alone was proof that the qur'an is from Allah. So without you writing it in arabic, you don't learn the miracle within the arabic. However, the arabic is not it's only miracle. Another miracle is it's divine inspiration and guardianship. This particular miracle, explained in post 651, does not require arabic. No matter what language you write it in, you still will not be able to match the miracle explained in post 651. I hope that's clearer.

Are the foreign words in the Quran considered a miracle aswell?

 

[Fatihah]

You must understand that all these miracles are only miracles only to Muslims, its a matter of faith! The Arab imperial stamp is so indelible that they have you believing that Arabic itself is a miracle and the language of heaven?

Response: Yet your consistant inability to answer the challenge proves to the contrary.

 

[Fatihah]

Are the foreign words in the Quran considered a miracle aswell?

Response: What are these foreign words and what exactly is meant by foreign words.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

This will be my last post on this topic because there is no open mindedness on the part of Fatihah.
I will give you one more try to understand. I am not saying the Quran HAS to be written by Satan, I am just pointing out it is a possibility since Satan is supernatural.

Your argument has been twofold.

1)Prove Satan wrote it
2)If Satan wrote it, it would speak of evil and not purity.

I then pointed out that when a child molester goes in for the hunt, he brings candy and pleasantries. He has to gain the trust of the victim, and make the victim feel everything is OK.

All I am asking is why is it not even something you will consider? I understand you are proud of the Quran, and you feel God will spank you if you think about what I am asking you to think about, but alas, the Quran will stand as God's words if they really are God's words. Just like any other sacred script.

So, in summary, I am not saying it is Satan's book, but I am saying as humans our lives depend on following the right path, so I want to challenge all paths, and anyone should want to do that for their own heart.

I doubt you will understand my point, I doubt you will stop being defensive. I am not attacking you, but thought you might be reasonable about dialog, and considering peoples reservations about the text.

You are not representing Islam very well, by ONLY being defensive about it.

 

[Fatihah]

This will be my last post on this topic because there is no open mindedness on the part of Fatihah.
I will give you one more try to understand. I am not saying the Quran HAS to be written by Satan, I am just pointing out it is a possibility since Satan is supernatural.

Your argument has been twofold.

1)Prove Satan wrote it
2)If Satan wrote it, it would speak of evil and not purity.

I then pointed out that when a child molester goes in for the hunt, he brings candy and pleasantries. He has to gain the trust of the victim, and make the victim feel everything is OK.

All I am asking is why is it not even something you will consider? I understand you are proud of the Quran, and you feel God will spank you if you think about what I am asking you to think about, but alas, the Quran will stand as God's words if they really are God's words. Just like any other sacred script.

So, in summary, I am not saying it is Satan's book, but I am saying as humans our lives depend on following the right path, so I want to challenge all paths, and anyone should want to do that for their own heart.

I doubt you will understand my point, I doubt you will stop being defensive. I am not attacking you, but thought you might be reasonable about dialog, and considering peoples reservations about the text.

You are not representing Islam very well, by ONLY being defensive about it.

Response: From the words above, clearly the one being defensive is you. You asked a question, I answered your question without the slightest bit of slur or slander, and somehow I'm being defensive and not open minded? You doubt if I understand your point with no proof of such a claim and you accuse me of not considering your point despite the fact that I've acknowledged it and adressed it and above you highlighted those points of mine. In my post, I never accused you of anything, but above you're doing the opposite to me. But I'm being defensive? Cleary you're the one who's not open minded and on the defense.

 

[England my lionheart]

Response: What are these foreign words and what exactly is meant by foreign words.

Well there are many foreign words and sayings in the Quran,that is pretty much accepted by Muslim Scholars,these words and sayings are of non Arabic origin;i can understand that these are loan words and some were integrated into the Arabic language but these words wer used instead of Arabic words so the Quran cannot be in pure Arabic.
Anyway here are some for you to look at:
al-Qistas (17:35), derived from the Greek language.
al-Sijjil (15: 74), derived from the Persian language.
al-Ghassaq (78: 25), derived from the Turkish language.
al-Tur (2:63), derived from the Syriac language.
al-Kifl (57: 28), derived from the Abyssinian language

 

[Fatihah]

Well there are many foreign words and sayings in the Quran,that is pretty much accepted by Muslim Scholars,these words and sayings are of non Arabic origin;i can understand that these are loan words and some were integrated into the Arabic language but these words wer used instead of Arabic words so the Quran cannot be in pure Arabic.
Anyway here are some for you to look at:
al-Qistas (17:35), derived from the Greek language.
al-Sijjil (15: 74), derived from the Persian language.
al-Ghassaq (78: 25), derived from the Turkish language.
al-Tur (2:63), derived from the Syriac language.
al-Kifl (57: 28), derived from the Abyssinian language

Response: And what exactly is the origin of arabic and what is a foreign word?

 

[Zhakir]

England, your argument has been disproven,these word became part of the Arabic language.

 

[kai]

Response: Yet your consistant inability to answer the challenge proves to the contrary.

To an unbeleiver there is no challenge thats what you dont get , i have listed on this very thread religious scripture that to me are of equal to the Quran. To you as a Muslim they are not-----stalemate.

 

[kai]

England, your argument has been disproven,these word became part of the Arabic language.

the thinking is that whatever was the Arabic that the the Quran was written in became the Miracle and is now the benchmark. It doesnt matter where the words came from its a miracle! thats it.

 

[Fatihah]

To an unbeleiver there is no challenge thats what you dont get , i have listed on this very thread religious scripture that to me are of equal to the Quran. To you as a Muslim they are not-----stalemate.

Response: To the contrary, to the unbeliever it is a challenge. Those who still choose to insist as an unbeliever is simply in denial. That I do get.