The Challenge in the Qur'an

[McBell]

Response: Another statement. Where's the proof?

:slap:
Just look back through the thread and see that you have not presented anything to support your alleged condition.

Easy for any honest person to see.
So which are you, honest or dishonest?

 

[Riverwolf]

Response: And once again, the question is whether the qur'an is from Allah. The challenge provides the answer. You've once again provided a post which doesn't provide any proof that the challenge does not prove that the qur'an is from Allah. Thus your post is irrelevant.

How many times do I have to repeat myself?

I'M NOT TRYING TO PROVE THE QUR'AN ISN'T FROM GOD!!!!
I'M NOT TRYING TO PROVE THE QUR'AN ISN'T FROM GOD!!!!
I'M NOT TRYING TO PROVE THE QUR'AN ISN'T FROM GOD!!!!

That enough for you?

Now that we've hopefully gotten that out of the way, I'm debating the validity of your condition for the challenge, not the challenge itself. If the condition you've provided, is, in fact, true, than whatever it is that gave the Qur'an to Mohammad would be using fear and bullying tactics to make people convert. That is the domain of the demonic. Therefore, if the Qur'an is from God, your condition cannot be true.

 

[Riverwolf]

um...
not trying to be an arse, but what exactly do you think "I have not found it in the Koran" means?

You have not looked for a verse in the Qur'an that says what the condition for the challenge is?

That's what I'm trying to ask.

 

[Fatihah]

I will not answer the challenge because I do not want to conquer nations, and I do not believe that conquering nations is a prerequisite for being the "true" religion. I believe conquering nations is barbaric and savage: a dominion of tyrants. In your language, the dominion of Iblis.

I neither accept nor deny that the Qur'an is from God. I have not read it, nor have I studied it in-depth. That is not the issue that I'm debating right now. The issue I'm addressing is your condition for the challenge. THAT'S ALL.

I deny that your condition is perfectly valid. I do not deny that the Qur'an is from God; I'm still unsure about that. But rest assured: if I find that the Qur'an is, in fact, from God, I would still not convert to Islam.

Response: So you would deny following God regardless of what God says. Thanks for telling me.

 

[Riverwolf]

Response:
There's the statement. Where's the proof?

The fact that you have not provided any Qur'anic verse that supports your condition, and if you have, you have not directed us to the post that does so, as you would be obligated to do simply as a courtesy considering this thread is over 900 pages.

 

[McBell]

You have not looked for a verse in the Qur'an that says what the condition for the challenge is?

That's what I'm trying to ask.

oh.

Yes I have looked.
I looked because I did not recall any such condition on said challenge.

Of course, when I read the Koran, the claimed challenge did not seem to me to be the challenge that Muslims claim it to be.

But then, I disagree that the Koran is full of scientific miracles as well.
And there are several threads where Muslims stretch the Forer Effect thinner than thin.

 

[Riverwolf]

Response: So you would deny following God regardless of what God says. Thanks for telling me.

Not really. Because I would not believe what God says in the Qur'an is completely universal.

I believe that Scriptures are revealed as needed depending on culture and times. God, as Krishna, said that whenever there's a decline in righteousness, he appears to set things straight. He would have to do this depending on the culture and time; therefore, each message to each culture would naturally be different.

 

[McBell]

Response: So you would deny following God regardless of what God says. Thanks for telling me.

I do not speak for Riverwolf, but I know I sure do not follow your god.

BUt then, your god is only one of many to choose from.

 

[Riverwolf]

oh.

Yes I have looked.
I looked because I did not recall any such condition on said challenge.

Okay. Just checking your credibility on your claim that there isn't such a verse, because I have not read the whole Qur'an myself, let alone studied it.

 

[Riverwolf]

I do not speak for Riverwolf, but I know I sure do not follow your god.

BUt then, your god is only one of many to choose from.

I believe all Gods are One God. ^_^ Pantheist. :yes:

 

[Fatihah]

thus the reason you have added your "conquering" condition to Allah's challenge.
It is clear that the challenge from Allah, as presented in the Koran, has been met.

Your whining and complaining that all your added conditions have not been met is completely irrelevant.

But your denial is most comical.

Response:Likewise.

 

[Riverwolf]

Response:Likewise.

You might want to be a bit more choosy in your retorts, because your use of "likewise" can be seen as an implication for admitting your own denial, which I don't think you mean.

Just FYI.

 

[Fatihah]

How many times do I have to repeat myself?

I'M NOT TRYING TO PROVE THE QUR'AN ISN'T FROM GOD!!!!
I'M NOT TRYING TO PROVE THE QUR'AN ISN'T FROM GOD!!!!
I'M NOT TRYING TO PROVE THE QUR'AN ISN'T FROM GOD!!!!

That enough for you?

Now that we've hopefully gotten that out of the way, I'm debating the validity of your condition for the challenge, not the challenge itself. If the condition you've provided, is, in fact, true, than whatever it is that gave the Qur'an to Mohammad would be using fear and bullying tactics to make people convert. That is the domain of the demonic. Therefore, if the Qur'an is from God, your condition cannot be true.

Response: I never stated that one of the conditions in the challenge is to use fear and bullying tactics. Thus once again, another irrelevant statement which at the same time does not disprove that the challenge isn't proof that the qur'an is from Allah.

 

[McBell]

Response:Likewise.

Nice to see you so agreeable.

Though I suspect you do not realize that you are agreeing.

 

[Riverwolf]

Response: I never stated that one of the conditions in the challenge is to use fear and bullying tactics. Thus once again, another irrelevant statement which at the same time does not disprove that the challenge isn't proof that the qur'an is from Allah.

Conquering nations is nothing less, and likely more, than bullying and using fear to gain converts. In other words, yes, without realizing it, you have.

Now, why do you continue to ignore the fact that I am not trying to disprove the possibility that the Qur'an is from God?

 

[Fatihah]

The fact that you have not provided any Qur'anic verse that supports your condition, and if you have, you have not directed us to the post that does so, as you would be obligated to do simply as a courtesy considering this thread is over 900 pages.

Response: There's the statement. Where's the proof?

 

[McBell]

Response: There's the statement. Where's the proof?

Here:

:slap:
Just look back through the thread and see that you have not presented anything to support your alleged condition.

Easy for any honest person to see.
So which are you, honest or dishonest?

And here:

The fact that you have not provided any Qur'anic verse that supports your condition, and if you have, you have not directed us to the post that does so, as you would be obligated to do simply as a courtesy considering this thread is over 900 pages.

 

[Riverwolf]

Response: There's the statement. Where's the proof?

Do you deny the fact that you have not provided any such verse?

 

[Fatihah]

Not really. Because I would not believe what God says in the Qur'an is completely universal.

I believe that Scriptures are revealed as needed depending on culture and times. God, as Krishna, said that whenever there's a decline in righteousness, he appears to set things straight. He would have to do this depending on the culture and time; therefore, each message to each culture would naturally be different.

Response: But that is not what you said. You said that you would not follow God even if the qur'an was from God. Therefore, you would disobey God regardless of scripture.

 

[Riverwolf]

Response: But that is not what you said. You said that you would not follow God even if the qur'an was from God. Therefore, you would disobey God regardless of scripture.

I would be following God, because if I find that the Qur'an is from God, I would still believe that all the other Scriptures (Torah, Gospel, Gita, Kitab-i-Aqdas, Nandinatha Sutras, etc.) are also from God. I'd be following the Scriptures that God intended for me to follow, which I'm still trying to locate. One, I'm pretty sure, is the Bhagavad-Gita.

Therefore, by your logic, I would not be following God simply by not following any one of these Scriptures.