The Challenge in the Qur'an

[Zhakir]

You two just make sure that the honor,importance and preference of a human have nothing to with the race and language of that human or the Quran's original text,this is at least in Islam and in the side of Allah (swt). if you think race and language and Quran's original text have,it's not my problem.

 

[Sahar]

well if an Arabic Quran is the Only true Quran , and Arabic is the language of the revelation and paradise, anyone not able to read and write Arabic is obviously going to be disadvantaged when it comes to God consciousness.

Nonsense.

 

[kai]

Nonsense.

why?

Arabic is the language chosen by Allah.

And verily this Qur'an is a revelation from the Lord of all the worlds.
The Spirit, faithful to the trust, has descended with it
On thy heart, that thou mayest be a Warner,
In plain and clear Arabic tongue. (Sher Ali, 26:192-195)


We have revealed it - the Qur'an in Arabic - that you may understand. (12:2)
We have made it a Book to be oft read in clear, eloquent language that you may understand. (43:3)

 

[kai]

You two just make sure that the honor,importance and preference of a human have nothing to with the race and language of that human or the Quran's original text,this is at least in Islam and in the side of Allah (swt). if you think race and language and Quran's original text have,it's not my problem.

i dont know what your talking about ----really i don't. look it stands to reason if you cant read the Quran and an Arabic Quran is the only true Quran then your missing something surely.


And verily this Qur'an is a revelation from the Lord of all the worlds.
The Spirit, faithful to the trust, has descended with it
On thy heart, that thou mayest be a Warner,
In plain and clear Arabic tongue. (Sher Ali, 26:192-195)

 

[McBell]

why?

I am guessing that Muslims who cannot speak/read/understand the Koranic Arabic will all disagree.

Except those who make the claim that one has to hear/read the Koran in the ORIGINAL language to fully understand it.....

 

[Sahar]

why?

Arabic is the language chosen by Allah.

And verily this Qur'an is a revelation from the Lord of all the worlds.
The Spirit, faithful to the trust, has descended with it
On thy heart, that thou mayest be a Warner,
In plain and clear Arabic tongue. (Sher Ali, 26:192-195)


We have revealed it - the Qur'an in Arabic - that you may understand. (12:2)
We have made it a Book to be oft read in clear, eloquent language that you may understand. (43:3)

And?!
How is this going to make an Arab Muslim better than his non Arab brother regarding knowing his God, what He wants from us, the relationship with Him?

And if it wasn't Arabic, it would be any other language...

 

[YmirGF]

And?!
How is this going to make an Arab Muslim better than his non Arab brother regarding knowing his God, what He wants from us, the relationship with Him?

And if it wasn't Arabic, it would be any other language...

That sounds reasonable, but if so, why is there all the fuss over having to learn Arabic to understand the Qur'an exactly how it is meant? Is it just for clarification?

 

[Zhakir]

That sounds reasonable, but if so, why is there all the fuss over having to learn Arabic to understand the Qur'an exactly how it is meant? Is it just for clarification?

Muslims don't have to learn the Arabic language,they just have to offer salat (not praying) and some haj rituals in Arabic ,Full knowledge of the Quran in Arabic Which contains about 1500 words (without the repeated words/root words) is not obligatory as well.

 

[Sahar]

Although it's not obligatory and many (if not most of) non Arab Muslims can not speak/understand Arabic, I do think learning the language of the Qur'an; Arabic should be encouraged. If kids in KG are taught A B C, the alphabet of English and French in many schools of Muslims, why not Arabic be regarded the same?
Doesn't the language of the Qur'an deserve this? Why is learning English or French considered more important?

 

[kai]

And?!
How is this going to make an Arab Muslim better than his non Arab brother regarding knowing his God, what He wants from us, the relationship with Him?
How?By reading the true Quran in the language it was expressed in , the language specifically used to communicate the devine message.We are told the Quran and indeed Arabic is a miracle and yet you dont think Muslims need to be able to understand that miracle.Ok i agree you dont have to read the true Quran to be a muslim but wouldnt all Muslims wish to read the unalterable word of God? wouldnt that enhance your relationship?
And if it wasn't Arabic, it would be any other language...

But it isnt is it its Arabic. Arabic and the Quran have a unique relationship anyone professing Islam cannot ignore the role Arabic plays in his faith. Embracing Islam, therefore, entails exposure to, and familiarity with, the Arabic language. Such familiarity is necessitated by the fact that memorization and recitation of Qur'anic verses in their original language is necessary for the performance of the daily rituals.

Ignoring Arabic is not an option is it?

 

[kai]

Although it's not obligatory and many (if not most of) non Arab Muslims can not speak/understand Arabic, I do think learning the language of the Qur'an; Arabic should be encouraged. If kids in KG are taught A B C, the alphabet of English and French in many schools of Muslims, why not Arabic be regarded the same?
Doesn't the language of the Qur'an deserve this? Why is learning English or French considered more important?

Why do you want it encouraged? if not for the reasons i have stated previously.

 

[kai]

Muslims don't have to learn the Arabic language,they just have to offer salat (not praying) and some haj rituals in Arabic ,Full knowledge of the Quran in Arabic Which contains about 1500 words (without the repeated words/root words) is not obligatory as well.

OK its not obligatory i agree with you there but as a muslim does it not strike you as odd that your prayers in Arabis is obligatory but the reading of the Quran itself in Arabic is not. and this ruling is it Hadith?

 

[iloveislam]

Dear Kai,

I'm not sure as to agree or disagree with brother Zhakir on the obligation of Arabic on Muslims, simply because I haven't yet attained enough knowledge on this issue. However, you should know that any ruling in Islam you hear from a Muslim, then you should ask them about the sources by which they base their ruling on, i.e. the Qur'an and Sunnah.

They cannot just base their ruling on "how they feel like it", or their desires etc.

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said:

"Allah does not take away the knowledge, by taking it away from (the hearts of) the people, but takes it away by the death of the religious learned men till when none of the (religious learned men) remains, people will take as their leaders ignorant persons who when consulted will give their verdict without knowledge. So they will go astray and will lead the people astray."
[Sahih al-Bukhari - Volume 1, Book 3, Hadith Number 100]

​

 

[Sahar]

But it isnt is it its Arabic. Arabic and the Quran have a unique relationship anyone professing Islam cannot ignore the role Arabic plays in his faith. Embracing Islam, therefore, entails exposure to, and familiarity with, the Arabic language. Such familiarity is necessitated by the fact that memorization and recitation of Qur'anic verses in their original language is necessary for the performance of the daily rituals.

Aganin, so what?
What's the problem in learning some Qur'anic verses, words or phrases in Arabic to perform the Salah? Or for any other reason? Or even learning Arabic from A to Z?
Did non Arab Muslims complain to you or something?

If it wasn't Arabic, it would be any other language...but this is the Will of Allah.

Why do you want it encouraged? if not for the reasons i have stated previously.

Why not?
I say like Faithah; where is your proof? You have to prove that Arabs have more taqwa than non Arab Muslims. If you can't, just don't make unfounded claims.
And the fact that non Arabs comprise the majority of Muslims ruins your argument from its beginning.

 

[Tiapan]

So the long an the short of it is that, I CAN write a verse of meaningful words in perfect English prose that meets the Qu'rans challenge, and that would be universally accepted by all Muslims even though it would sound like crap in Arabic? Is that correct?

Cheers

 

[ThereIsNoSpoon]

So the long an the short of it is that, I CAN write a verse of meaningful words in perfect English prose that meets the Qu'rans challenge, and that would be universally accepted by all Muslims even though it would sound like crap in Arabic? Is that correct?

Cheers

Of course nobody accepts it if he knows that it is not in the quran.

I have seen people write such verses (alco in arabic) and the challenge was fullfilled when people didnt know the quran comepletely and thought it to be a verse of it.
If they knew it was not the challenge of course was never fullfilled.

Actually that was what you would expect as a result of such a challenge in religion.

 

[Tiapan]

Of course nobody accepts it if he knows that it is not in the quran.

I have seen people write such verses (alco in arabic) and the challenge was fullfilled when people didnt know the quran comepletely and thought it to be a verse of it.
If they knew it was not the challenge of course was never fullfilled.

Actually that was what you would expect as a result of such a challenge in religion.

The rules seem to be changing again, now its appears it has to be part of the Quran?

Can anyone please correctly DEFINE what the rules are for this goose chase. All the rules not half of them.

Cheers

 

[kai]

Aganin, so what?
What's the problem in learning some Qur'anic verses, words or phrases in Arabic to perform the Salah? Or for any other reason? Or even learning Arabic from A to Z? I dont have a problem?
Did non Arab Muslims complain to you or something?
NO!
If it wasn't Arabic, it would be any other language...but this is the Will of Allah.
Indeed

Why not?
I say like Faithah; where is your proof? You have to prove that Arabs have more taqwa than non Arab Muslims. If you can't, just don't make unfounded claims.
And the fact that non Arabs comprise the majority of Muslims ruins your argument from its beginning.

Look its easy for you your an Arab so you can read the original Quran ---yes
proof of what? that Non Arab reading Muslims cannot read the true unalterable revelation in the Quran? thats obvious.


and i am not arguing i am just saying that how can you know Allah without reading the revelation in its true form? and i dont care how many Muslims there are, if they all have to put their Arabic Quran on a higher bookshelf than their own language Quran then what give with theres no need to read it?


and if they are not sure about something they refer to a scholar who can read the original? doesn't taqwa require inspiration from god ? and what greater inspiration is there than the Quran?

 

[kai]

The rules seem to be changing again, now its appears it has to be part of the Quran?

Can anyone please correctly DEFINE what the rules are for this goose chase. All the rules not half of them.

Cheers

you will find lots of different rules in this thread depending on who is answering .
In my humble opinion if a translated Quran is deemed as not an equal then how can something not in the language of the revelation possibly be deemed as equal.

 

[McBell]

So the long an the short of it is that, I CAN write a verse of meaningful words in perfect English prose that meets the Qu'rans challenge, and that would be universally accepted by all Muslims even though it would sound like crap in Arabic? Is that correct?

Cheers

What difference doe it make how it sounds in Arabic?
Especially if it is written in English to begin with?

Unlless of course the challenge does in fact have to be in Arabic.....

Like I have already stated, Muslims for some reason reason feel the need to add all manner of conditions to the challenge Allah himself issued.

I cannot help but wonder why they do not think that Allah's challenge can stand on its own.