The Challenge in the Qur'an

[McBell]

The Qur'an (Yusuf Ali translation), 2 - The Cow​

22. Who has made the earth your couch, and the heaven your canopy; and sent down rain from the heavens; and brought forth therewith fruits for your sustenance; then set not up rivals unto Allah when ye know (the truth).
23. And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Surah like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (if there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.
24. But if ye cannot, and of a surety ye cannot, then fear the fire whose fuel is Men and Stones, which is prepared for those who reject Faith

The Qur'an (Pickthall translation), 2 - The Cow​

22 Who hath appointed the earth a resting-place for you, and the sky a canopy; and causeth water to pour down from the sky, thereby producing fruits as food for you. And do not set up rivals to Allah when ye know (better).
23 And if ye are in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto Our slave (Muhammad), then produce a surah of the like thereof, and call your witness beside Allah if ye are truthful.
24 And if ye do it not - and ye can never do it - then guard yourselves against the Fire prepared for disbelievers, whose fuel is of men and stones.

The Qur'an (Yusuf Ali translation), Sura 4 - Women​

81. They have "Obedience" on their lips; but when they leave thee, a section of them meditate all night on things very different from what thou tellest them, but Allah records their nightly (plots): so keep clear of them, and put thy trust in Allah; and enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
82. Do they not consider the Qur'án (with care)? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy.
83. When there comes to them some matter touching (public) safety or fear, they divulge it. If they had only referred it to the Messenger, or to those charged with authority among them, the proper investigators would have tested it from them (direct). Were it not for the Grace and Mercy of Allah unto you, all but a few of you would have fallen into the clutches of Satan.

The Qur'an (Pickthall translation), Sura 4 - Women​

81 And they say: (It is) obedience; but when they have gone forth from thee a party of them spend the night in planning other than what thou sayest. Allah recordeth what they plan by night. So oppose them and put thy trust in Allah. Allah is sufficient as Trustee.
82 Will they not then ponder on the Qur'án ? If it had been from other than Allah they would have found therein much incongruity.
83 And if any tidings, whether of safety or fear, come unto them, they noise it abroad, whereas if they had referred it to the messenger and to such of them as are in authority, those among them who are able to think out the matter would have known it. If it had not been for the grace of Allah upon you and His mercy ye would have followed Satan, save a few (of you)

The Qur'an (Yusuf Ali translation), Sura 17 - The Israelites​

87. Except for Mercy from thy Lord: for His Bounty is to thee (indeed) great.
88. Say: "If the whole of mankind and Jinns were to gather together to produce the like of this Qur'án, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they backed up each other with help and support.
89. And We have explained to man, in this Qur'án, every kind of similitude: yet the greater part of men refuse (to receive it) except with ingratitude!

The Qur'an (Pickthall translation), Sura 17 - The Israelites​

87 (It is naught) save mercy from thy Lord. Lo! His kindness unto thee was ever great.
88 Say: Verily, though mankind and the jinn should assemble to produce the like of this Qur’an, they could not produce the like thereof though they were helpers one of another.
89 And verily We have displayed for mankind in this Qur’an all kind of similitude’s, but most of mankind refuse aught save disbelief.

Funny...
I see no mention of language requirements,
nor of conquering nations,
nor of any other than Allah to judge it,
nor gaining a following,
nor of converting...

and these are merely some of the ADDED ON conditions mentioned by Muslims in this thread alone.

Wait...
Perhaps all these conditions are rendered in the original Arabic language version...?

 

[ThereIsNoSpoon]

The rules seem to be changing again, now its appears it has to be part of the Quran?

Can anyone please correctly DEFINE what the rules are for this goose chase. All the rules not half of them.

Cheers

Thats not a rule change. I am just telling you my experience.
Of course (as with any such challenge) there are no definite rules by which you can go anyway. The evaluation itself is not following a defined standard.

 

[ThereIsNoSpoon]

@Mestemia:
Could you get rid of that bug or fly or whatever it is in your signature?

I almost SMASHED my display

 

[kai]

Now not4me i am not arguing, i am putiing a point across and i think this just about sums up the point i am making.


What is required of every Muslim is to be able to read surat Al-Fatihah and some other passages of the Qur'an in Arabic to enable him/her to offer his/her prayers. However, it is to the advantage of every Muslim to understand Arabic, because that would enable him to have a better insight into his faith. There is no doubt that you will understand the Qur'an and the Sunnah better, if you know Arabic. This applies to any work which you may be able to read in its original language or in translation. No translation could give an exact meaning of the original text because of the different associations and connotations of the words used in each language. ( my Emboldening)

Is It Obligatory to Learn Arabic to Be a Muslim? - IslamonLine.net - Ask The Scholar

 

[Tiapan]

Whilst I am dictating my version "Quran 2 the return of the Lubra Prophet".

I thought I would submit another piece of prose written by an earlier author, that matches and exceeds the Quoran in wisdom and love. It is truth and as such is perfect.

It is written in English so I don't know if it rhymes in Arabic and doesnt include the mandatory pages of ad homininum praises that tend hide the clarity of meaning of most things, swt etcetcetcetcetcetcetcetc.............................

But these are powerful words.

The Desiderata
by Max Ehrmann, 1927

Cheers

 

[YmirGF]

Whilst I am dictating my version "Quran 2 the return of the Lubra Prophet".

I thought I would submit another piece of prose written by an earlier author, that matches and exceeds the Quoran in wisdom and love. It is truth and as such is perfect.

It is written in English so I don't know if it rhymes in Arabic and doesnt include the mandatory pages of ad homininum praises that tend hide the clarity of meaning of most things, swt etcetcetcetcetcetcetcetc.............................

Cheers

It is because any response to the challenge would never be acceptable to Muslims that the "challenge" itself is without merit. I would go as far as to say that even if the resulting work was clearly superior to the Qur'an, in every regard, it would still be unacceptable and ultimately rejected.

 

[kai]

I think we can safely say the results of the thread are:

Muslims----No one can answer the Challenge!!!!!

non Muslims ----HUH What challenge?????

 

[YmirGF]

I think we can safely say the results of the thread are:

Muslims----No one can answer the Challenge!!!!! Because we are not listening, infidel, na ne na ne na na! *Puts fingers into ears*

non Muslims ----HUH What challenge????? why respond to something when you know your response will be rejected?

 

[England my lionheart]

Muslims----No one can answer the Challenge!!!!! Because we are not listening, infidel, na ne na ne na na! *Puts fingers into ears*

non Muslims ----HUH What challenge????? why respond to something when you know your response will be rejected?

Don't we just love the vortex

 

[A-ManESL]

I think we can safely say the results of the thread are:

Muslims----No one can answer the Challenge!!!!!

non Muslims ----HUH What challenge?????

You forgot that I am a Muslim and I didn't claim that no one can answer the Challenge, rather said that it was not a challenge. The message in the verse according to me here is that God can do things unheard of. What's more another Muslim on this forum privately commented "Well said" to me.

 

[England my lionheart]

Hi A-ManESL,i agree with you,its not a challenge like who can write the best essay,anyway thats how i see it,anyway how are you.

 

[A-ManESL]

I'm good. (A bit busy with real life stuff). Hopefully you are good too.

 

[kai]

You forgot that I am a Muslim and I didn't claim that no one can answer the Challenge, rather said that it was not a challenge. The message in the verse according to me here is that God can do things unheard of. What's more another Muslim on this forum privately commented "Well said" to me.

tell me are you anarchist Muslims accepted as Muslims by Muslims in general? and what exactly is an anarchist Muslim?

 

[A-ManESL]

tell me are you anarchist Muslims accepted as Muslims by Muslims in general? and what exactly is an anarchist Muslim?

Well actually there is no full fledged anarchist movement within Islam to raise the problem of acceptance or rejection. I am outwardly a Hanafi orthodox Muslim. By saying that I am an anarchist Muslim I meant that I reject a submissive compliance to the fatwas of Imams, relying instead on the concept of Ijtihad for a non-authoritarian interpretation of Islam. This is further elaborated by the Islamic concept of "no compulsion in religion and "No priesthood". (Theoretically all this has no conflict with the orthodoxy but practically it is in dynamic tension with it.)

I guess the genesis of my philosophy might be linked with Tolstoy's ideas of the role of the clergy in man's relationship with God.

Regards.

 

[kai]

Well actually there is no full fledged anarchist movement within Islam to raise the problem of acceptance or rejection. I am outwardly a Hanafi orthodox Muslim. By saying that I am an anarchist Muslim I meant that reject a submissive compliance to the fatwas of Imams, relying instead on the concept of Ijtihad for a non-authoritarian interpretation of Islam. This is further elaborated by the Islamic concept of "no compulsion in religion and "No priesthood". (Theoretically all this has no conflict with the orthodoxy but practically it is in dynamic tension with it.)

I guess the genesis of my philosophy might be linked with Tolstoy's ideas of the role of the clergy in man's relationship with God.

Regards.

cheers for that

 

[Fatihah]

The rules seem to be changing again, now its appears it has to be part of the Quran?

Can anyone please correctly DEFINE what the rules are for this goose chase. All the rules not half of them.

Cheers

Response: Taken from post 651 of page 66 of the thread:

" It is a common response that everytime this challenge is stated, someone responds with something like, "can you produce something like Shakespere or a symphony like Beethoven? If not, does this mean that they are prophets of God?"

So before the thread is filled with those type of responses, let me explain further. The challenge is to produce a chapter "like" the qur'an. Therefore, it does not mean to simply write something in arabic and think you've accomplished something. What is the qur'an? Well what is any religous scripture? It is supposed to be inspiration from God. It's purpose is to inspire people to follow its teachings. So to produce a chapter like the qur'an means to produce a chapter as inspirational and as successful as the qur'an.

So what's the purpose of that? Well by doing so, you learn the miracle of the qur'an. And what is that miracle? The miracle is the following:
It is impossible for a person/s to create their own religion and use their made up religion to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation.

This is the miracle of the qur'an. This is the miracle of Muhammad. This is a challenge for those who claim that the religion of islam is man made as well as the qur'an. Muhammad used a religion to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation. So to those who claim that this was the act of a man made religion, then why don't you do the same? Why don't you create your own religion and see how far you get? And when you do, you will fail. Not only will you will fail, you will fail miserably. Muhammad conquered Arabia. I guarantee you, you won't even be able to conquer your own neighborhood. And once you fail, you will be forced to ask yourself the question "why was it possible for Muhammad but impossible for me and anyone else?" That is when you will come to realize that it was the help of Allah that made it possible for Muhammad. Without Allah, even Muhammad would have failed. You disagree, the 1400+ year challenge still stands."

 

[England my lionheart]

This is from a group of Muftis in a response to a question regarding disjointed letters in the Qu'ran from Islamonline:

Ibn `Abbas was reported to have said that these letters stand as a proof of the authenticity of the words that occur after them.


In Az-Zamakhshari’s Kashshaaf, we read: “These letters indirectly denote that though being part of their own language, the Quraysh tribe failed to produce the like of the Qur’an.”


Some scholars adopt the view that these letters are names of the surahs (chapters of the Qur’an) in which they are mentioned.

In another place, we find that these letters are an aspect of the challenge directed to the disbelievers (to produce the like of the Qur’an). Although the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) was illiterate, he brought something very unique in every aspect.

The eminent Muslim scholar, Dr. `Abdul-Fattah `Ashoor, Professor of the Exegesis of the Qur'an at Al-Azhar Univ., states:

““Alif Lam Mim” [and the like] are separate or disjointed letters that many Qur'anic surahs start with.

Scholars hold different opinions regarding their meaning. The most correct opinion is that Allah refers to the fact that the Qur’an consists of the like of these letters. The People of Quraysh were challenged to produce the like of the Qur’an, which is of Arabic letters, and they failed to produce its like. They failed to produce 10 surahs, a single surah, or even a verse.

This sheds light on the fact that the Qur'an is revealed by Allah. No one can produce it, even the Prophet himself who was an eloquent man.

Allah Almighty says: "Say: Verily, though mankind and the Jinn should assemble to produce the like of this Quran, they could not produce the like thereof though they were helpers one of another." (Al-Isra': 88)

This is where the challenge is being talked of in past tense and that this challenge was meant for the Quaraish 1400 years ago,this is the only logical conclusion IMO


​

 

[Riverwolf]

Response: Taken from post 651 of page 66 of the thread:

" It is a common response that everytime this challenge is stated, someone responds with something like, "can you produce something like Shakespere or a symphony like Beethoven? If not, does this mean that they are prophets of God?"

So before the thread is filled with those type of responses, let me explain further. The challenge is to produce a chapter "like" the qur'an. Therefore, it does not mean to simply write something in arabic and think you've accomplished something. What is the qur'an? Well what is any religous scripture? It is supposed to be inspiration from God. It's purpose is to inspire people to follow its teachings. So to produce a chapter like the qur'an means to produce a chapter as inspirational and as successful as the qur'an.

So what's the purpose of that? Well by doing so, you learn the miracle of the qur'an. And what is that miracle? The miracle is the following:
It is impossible for a person/s to create their own religion and use their made up religion to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation.

This is the miracle of the qur'an. This is the miracle of Muhammad. This is a challenge for those who claim that the religion of islam is man made as well as the qur'an. Muhammad used a religion to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation. So to those who claim that this was the act of a man made religion, then why don't you do the same? Why don't you create your own religion and see how far you get? And when you do, you will fail. Not only will you will fail, you will fail miserably. Muhammad conquered Arabia. I guarantee you, you won't even be able to conquer your own neighborhood. And once you fail, you will be forced to ask yourself the question "why was it possible for Muhammad but impossible for me and anyone else?" That is when you will come to realize that it was the help of Allah that made it possible for Muhammad. Without Allah, even Muhammad would have failed. You disagree, the 1400+ year challenge still stands."

And where was this stated in the Qur'an?

Though I am pleased that you reworded this argument from before, because several books have been used to conquer nations, such as Mein Kamf and The Little Red Book.

Besides, have you read The Art of War?

 

[McBell]

So before the thread is filled with those type of responses, let me explain further. The challenge is to produce a chapter "like" the qur'an. Therefore, it does not mean to simply write something in arabic and think you've accomplished something. What is the qur'an? Well what is any religous scripture? It is supposed to be inspiration from God. It's purpose is to inspire people to follow its teachings. So to produce a chapter like the qur'an means to produce a chapter as inspirational and as successful as the qur'an.

Dianetics by L Ron Hubbard led to Scientology.

There, your challenge has been met.

Or are you going to tack on conditions not specified by Allah?
Seems to me that that is the only reason said challenge cannot be met.
Muslims keep tacking on more and more conditions.
Conditions that Allah did not specify.

I asked in anther thread why Muslims felt that Allah's Challenge needed so many more added conditions.
Never got a straight answer.

 

[Riverwolf]

Dianetics by L Ron Hubbard led to Scientology.

There, your challenge has been met.

Not really. Fatihah's condition is that the religion has to conquer nations, and Scientology hasn't even tried that, yet. Not to mention Scientology doesn't exactly have a major following.

Of course, it's a weak condition at best, because most religions don't even seek to conquer nations.