The Coffee House - the UU Fellowship Thread

[Storm]

What kind of advice are you looking for?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I have been asked by a Unitarian church in my city to do a talk about a book I wrote about more tolerance in religion and non-religion. Can anyone give me some insight into just how to address this group. There are atheists and theists and because my book it more directed to get traditional religion to think about their beliefs, I feel my thoughts would be like "preaching to the choir". I think they already hold many of the beliefs I try to outline in my book so any suggestions on presentation?

Some may hold your beliefs but some may not. You have the opportunity to present your material to a group who, while they may not all agree with it, will at least listen with an open mind and wish to discuss it in depth afterwards over coffee. You will certainly be amongst friends and I predict an enjoyable experience for all parties.

 

[challupa]

What kind of advice are you looking for?

Well here's an example. Last night I did the talk to a United Church. What I usually talk about is how we need to re-evaluate our beliefs because what we believe dictates how we behave and interact with each other. I talk about possibly not having a complete understanding of god and how can we change our thinking to a more inclusive god. I don't believe in a god that has a "chosen people" and that god is big enough to embrace all people. I won't go on, but I think you get what I mean.

From my research into UU, I think everyone there will already agree with this and I don't want to insult them. My book goes into how the history of religions and Christianity in particular. It points out some of the contradictions and many quotes to show people that their beliefs might not be based on facts, but rather people that knew how to manipulate for power. Their talk about hell is one of these imo.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

From my research into UU, I think everyone there will already agree with this

Well you're right there, so don't act as though you are trying to convince someone and rather as though you are trying to reinforce current beliefs. Same material, just a different delivery.

 

[challupa]

Some may hold your beliefs but some may not. You have the opportunity to present your material to a group who, while they may not all agree with it, will at least listen with an open mind and wish to discuss it in depth afterwards over coffee. You will certainly be amongst friends and I predict an enjoyable experience for all parties.

Yes I am really looking forward to this. I was asked by a secular humanist that attends that church. That an athiest actually went to church really floored me at first, but now I think it really speaks volumes for the UU church! I already have met some of the people that will be there and some have heard me speak before, but I don't want to insult their intelligence by my usual talk and would like to gear it more towards their already very liberal beliefs.

 

[challupa]

Well you're right there, so don't act as though you are trying to convince someone and rather as though you are trying to reinforce current beliefs. Same material, just a different delivery.

Yes I had thought of that so I'm glad you have helped confirm that for me. I actually got an email from someone who attended last nights talk, and they said they enjoyed it and thought it would be appreciated if I started my talk the same way with the Unitarian church. They are part of that church and have attended many book presentations there, so I would think they know what to expect.

 

[Storm]

Well here's an example. Last night I did the talk to a United Church. What I usually talk about is how we need to re-evaluate our beliefs because what we believe dictates how we behave and interact with each other. I talk about possibly not having a complete understanding of god and how can we change our thinking to a more inclusive god. I don't believe in a god that has a "chosen people" and that god is big enough to embrace all people. I won't go on, but I think you get what I mean.

From my research into UU, I think everyone there will already agree with this and I don't want to insult them. My book goes into how the history of religions and Christianity in particular. It points out some of the contradictions and many quotes to show people that their beliefs might not be based on facts, but rather people that knew how to manipulate for power. Their talk about hell is one of these imo.

Well, from what you've said, you will be preaching to the choir, but sometimes that's ok. After all, if they weren't interested in hearing what you have to say, they wouldn't show up.

My best advice, based on a couple of vaguely similar talks I've been to, is to make it interesting and not just an infomercial for the book. That's just irritating. Have a conversation, and don't hold back the good stuff.

If you really want to shake things up, talk about how even liberal faith needs to be examined. What are the consequences of progress? Is "onward and upward forever" tenable? Does cherry picking from wildly disparate faith traditions do them a disservice, or can it be done with honor and respect?

Hope that was helpful.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Have a conversation, and don't hold back the good stuff.

Yes indeed and make it interactive if you want. A UU congregation doesn't mind answering questions and interacting with the pulpit.

 

[challupa]

Well, from what you've said, you will be preaching to the choir, but sometimes that's ok. After all, if they weren't interested in hearing what you have to say, they wouldn't show up.

My best advice, based on a couple of vaguely similar talks I've been to, is to make it interesting and not just an infomercial for the book. That's just irritating. Have a conversation, and don't hold back the good stuff.

If you really want to shake things up, talk about how even liberal faith needs to be examined. What are the consequences of progress? Is "onward and upward forever" tenable? Does cherry picking from wildly disparate faith traditions do them a disservice, or can it be done with honor and respect?

Hope that was helpful.

Actually that is something I do touch on. I think as our world changes we need to continue to find new and better ways of understanding it. Should our understanding of god stop several thousand years ago? Did god stop talking after Jesus? Things like that. Do we need a belief in god to live meaningful lives etc. I try to present more with a lot of questions rather than statements. I also say I just want to challenge people to do their own research and come to their own conclusions and not take my word for anything.

 

[challupa]

Yes indeed and make it interactive if you want. A UU congregation doesn't mind answering questions and interacting with the pulpit.

Well I've been told that I present my book for 45 minutes and then take questions for 45 minutes, so I'm trying to form in my mind what to say when it's just me that won't be all old stuff for them.

 

[Storm]

Actually that is something I do touch on. I think as our world changes we need to continue to find new and better ways of understanding it. Should our understanding of god stop several thousand years ago? Did god stop talking after Jesus? Things like that. Do we need a belief in god to live meaningful lives etc. I try to present more with a lot of questions rather than statements. I also say I just want to challenge people to do their own research and come to their own conclusions and not take my word for anything.

To be frank, the examples you list would be old hat to most UUs I know, and not provoke much thought. I don't mean to be harsh, just trying to help.

 

[challupa]

To be frank, the examples you list would be old hat to most UUs I know, and not provoke much thought. I don't mean to be harsh, just trying to help.

I don't see that as harsh. It's pretty much what I was thinking too. I do have parts of my book that do question the historic Jesus and have quotes from Egyptian historians and other more modern day writers that question whether a Jesus actually lived or was it a myth that got made into literal history. Would presenting the arguments they have be something new and okay?

 

[Storm]

I don't see that as harsh. It's pretty much what I was thinking too. I do have parts of my book that do question the historic Jesus and have quotes from Egyptian historians and other more modern day writers that question whether a Jesus actually lived or was it a myth that got made into literal history. Would presenting the arguments they have be something new and okay?

Hmmm... I'm not sure. We don't really focus on Jesus much. I personally have heard such arguments before and my interest wouldn't really be piqued by such a topic. I might go anyway, though. And at any rate, if this is a book gig, you don't want to stray too far and end up misrepresenting it. Is your book mostly about Christianity? For that matter, if the ad blurb has been written, hearing that would be helpful.

Also, where is this? You might find more interest in Christianity in more traditional areas than my beloved Portland.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Would presenting the arguments they have be something new and okay?

No, but go at it as though you're talking to peers rather than schooling students. Expect to have challenging questions and possibly learn as much as you teach. Folks don't mind having their views reinforced on occasion so I don't think you have to worry about offending or boring anyone. However, if you have anything that you perhaps don't discuss normally because folks generally just don't get it, then that's what you can bring out for the UUs. Consider it an advanced class.

 

[Storm]

No, but go at it as though you're talking to peers rather than schooling students. Expect to have challenging questions and possibly learn as much as you teach. Folks don't mind having their views reinforced on occasion so I don't think you have to worry about offending or boring anyone. However, if you have anything that you perhaps don't discuss normally because folks generally just don't get it, then that's what you can bring out for the UUs. Consider it an advanced class.

I think this is very good advice.

 

[challupa]

No, but go at it as though you're talking to peers rather than schooling students. Expect to have challenging questions and possibly learn as much as you teach. Folks don't mind having their views reinforced on occasion so I don't think you have to worry about offending or boring anyone. However, if you have anything that you perhaps don't discuss normally because folks generally just don't get it, then that's what you can bring out for the UUs. Consider it an advanced class.

Well I've certainly noticed that with the ones I have met so far. We have been able to talk about anything and discuss it without someone getting twisted. I like discussing different beliefs, not so much because I believe them, but more I would like to hear feed back from others why they are relevant or not or whether they believe etc. I think I will be able to learn lots at this and that's great imo.

 

[challupa]

Hmmm... I'm not sure. We don't really focus on Jesus much. I personally have heard such arguments before and my interest wouldn't really be piqued by such a topic. I might go anyway, though. And at any rate, if this is a book gig, you don't want to stray too far and end up misrepresenting it. Is your book mostly about Christianity? For that matter, if the ad blurb has been written, hearing that would be helpful.

Also, where is this? You might find more interest in Christianity in more traditional areas than my beloved Portland.

Well there is a chapter that presents the possibility. I leave it up to the reader to decide and give them links etc. so they can read further if interested. Tom Harpour, Alvin Kuhn, and Timothy Freke/Peter Gandy have all been recent writers on this. They think Jesus was mythical and do present some fairly thought provoking books on the subject so I have touched on their thoughts in the book.

I'm from Canada and there seems to be more athiests attending the church then theists which I find intriguing. Also quite a few gnostic and pagan beliefs. I don't go to church myself, but I think if I ever wanted to UU would be my first choice.

 

[Storm]

Well there is a chapter that presents the possibility. I leave it up to the reader to decide and give them links etc. so they can read further if interested. Tom Harpour, Alvin Kuhn, and Timothy Freke/Peter Gandy have all been recent writers on this. They think Jesus was mythical and do present some fairly thought provoking books on the subject so I have touched on their thoughts in the book.

Yeah, I've read The Jesus Mysteries, it was interesting. What else does the book cover?

I'm from Canada and there seems to be more athiests attending the church then theists which I find intriguing. Also quite a few gnostic and pagan beliefs.

Yeah, they probably don't focus on Jesus much, either.

I don't go to church myself, but I think if I ever wanted to UU would be my first choice.

Coolness.

 

[Storm]

The one talk I've been to that really impressed me, the guy basically summarized his book, touching on every chapter.

 

[challupa]

The one talk I've been to that really impressed me, the guy basically summarized his book, touching on every chapter.

Well I've thought of that too. They want a bit of personal history and what led me to write a book like this in the first place. So some of that will explain views I express in the book. But the problem is a UU could have written the book LOL. I'm not sure why they've asked me because the organizer has read it. He got it from the library first, then called me to find out where he could buy one. He must know it very closely resembles UU thought. Looking at it that way I wonder if that is the purpose of it. I just don't know really.