Trey of Diamonds
Well-Known Member
Be sure to let us know how things go, I'm very curious to hear.
Trey
Trey
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The Coffee House - the UU Fellowship Thread
- Thread starter Green Gaia
- Start date
J Bryson
Well-Known Member
I am guessing that you are responding largely to Tinker and Cone, sine they were the most provocative and hardcore.What did you think of Rosemary Bray McNatt's essay?
Cone actually struck me as open to further input, especially when it came to gender issues. His essay was hardcore (as you put it) to be sure, but in further discussions, he came across as being willing to share in give-and-take.
Tinker reminded me of some Christians I know in his approach, and it was only his perspective that varied. It seemed to me that in many of the discussions, his input was limited to "Well, my people believe [insert Native American belief here], and [implication that this is how everyone should look at it, though never expressed overtly]." I think that he raises some excellent points, though I find it unfulfilling that he only tangentially touches on the fetishization of Native American culture by White society, and offers few solutions on how to incorporate said beliefs without falling into that trap. Before the concept of "The Magic Negro" was ever introduced in film criticism, the "Magic Indian" was already a dominant part of the culture.
McBratt's essay spoke to me, so it's interesting that you pointed that one out. Her revelation that King had considered joining the Unitarian Church but thought that it would be impossible to get a movement going from within our congregations speaks much to the drawbacks of the Unitarian Church of the time, and still holds validity when it comes to the UU Church of today. It's easy to go to church and have your beliefs confirmed, to say "Yes, we shouldn't teach evolution in public schools, and should eliminate racism, and should support or LGBT brothers and sisters, and watch out for sexism, and take care of the environment." It takes effort to actually do something about it. It's so easy to fall into the complacent liberal trap, and that's one of the major reasons that the religious right has managed to wrest the label "religious" from us to the point that venal hypocrites like Dobson and Reed can appear on talk shows and claim to represent not just the Christian (which is still wrong), but the "religious family values" perspective.
There's a Biblical verse that's been spinning in my head for the past couple of weeks, and I believe that it applies to what I'm speaking to:
James 2:26 (NIV)
As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
As Unitarian Universalists, I believe that the vast majority of us do have faith. If not faith in God or some sort of divine presence, then at least faith in the uplifting of humankind, in the ability of us as brothers and sisters on this planet to make a better world for ourselves and for future generations. However, the UUs I've known in my life have largely kept to buying organic produce (when convenient), voting for progressive causes (when they remember to vote), and putting "Darwin" bumper stickers on their cars. Not that these things are bad, mind, but it's not enough. Our church is the body (a convenient and helpful Christian metaphor), and our spirit is the deeds that we do.As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
Of course, I'm not discounting the wonderful and vital efforts of the thousands of Unitarian Universalists who have put their hearts and souls into doing whatever they can to bring a message of love and tolerance to the world. Many of us staff phone banks, hold food drives for homeless people, confront racism on a daily basis, and write checks to charities serving far-off distant countries so that families may have food and clean water.
This last type of UU is what I would love to see us promote.
I want to see us on the talk shows, along with other liberal religious people. I'm sorry, but Al Sharpton does not get to speak for all religious progressives.
I want to see us in the streets, proudly holding banners at gay pride parades, at anti-racism demonstrations, writing letters to the editor, contributing our time, effort, sweat, and money to social causes.
We seem to take great pride in the idea that we welcome such diverse beliefs and worldviews into the greater umbrella of our organization. This pride is in many ways justified. However, I suspect that in many ways we have allowed our focus on diversity to allow us to ignore our more significant commonalities. It is these common traits that allow us to bind together in a community. It is through a community effort that we can effect real and lasting social change in the world.
EDIT: I apologize for how long this took. At first I didn't see the message, then I had to track down the book. Naturally, it was in the room where I do all my deep and thoughtful reading. Thankfully the shower hadn't gotten it wet.
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Karl R
Active Member
Do you have a section on the afterlife? If you really want to go after a sacred cow, you might challenge the concept of universalism.
You can start with the universalist assumption that a loving god wouldn't condemn anyone to an eternal hell but still reach conclusions other than universal salvation. If the hindus are correct, the we get to do it all over and over (and over and over) again until we get it right. If the muslims are correct, the unjust go to hell for atonement, but not permanent punishment; eventually merciful allah permits them to enter heaven. If the atheists are correct, there's no soul and no afterlife, so there's no eternal damnation; even if god exists, that doesn't imply the existence of a soul.
Every religion and culture seems to have its own beliefs about the afterlife. They obviously can't all be correct. If we're certain that our own beliefs are correct, we fall into the same flawed thinking that everyone else does.
You'll still be preaching to the choir, but you might wake them up a little bit.
I do go into what the different religions believe the after life is in the book. But my question is this? What if it is all of the above. If we think we're going to heaven or hell, then we do, or if we think we die and then there is nothing, maybe that happens for awhile too. I don't see this existence all that different from the one after physical death. I think we decide based on expectations how it's going to be. The Tibetian Book of the Dead actually warns about how you're thinking when you die because it can take you into an unconscious realm until you are reborn. I have also heard beliefs that you experience what you believe until you realize all it takes is a different thought to experience something entirely different. It is at that point you realize that you are continually creating your reality, and it is very evident after death. So I don't know, I guess I could talk about those findings. They are interesting.
Things went well last night. Thanks to all that helped me out. I had a pretty lively discussion after the presentation and a few people did come up after and tell me how much they enjoyed it. I also had a pretty even consensus that they agreed with what I presented. I had people who had read the book comment on how I was able to address hard questions with kindness which I was happy to hear because I always worried about how it would come across while I was writing it. Anyway, thanks so much for all the insight, advice and help I received here.
Thanks Storm. The people were great!
Trey of Diamonds
Well-Known Member
Too bad you're not closer to Houston, I'd love to have you come speak at our church.
That would have been nice. I am enjoying all the great people I'm meeting and the lively discussion. It's great! You're right, I'm no where near Houston. Thanks Trey for your help earlier.
Trey of Diamonds
Well-Known Member
Thanks Trey for your help earlier.
You're very welcome my friend.
Thanks J. I have been told they would like me to come in and do a Sunday morning talk. I somehow have never, ever, pictured myself in that situation. Not sure what to think. I will do it if they think it's appropriate I guess.
Trey of Diamonds
Well-Known Member
Of course it's appropriate. I won't say anything goes but your material is certainly in the norm. We once had a representative from LEAP, Law Enforcement Against Prohibition, speak on a Sunday. While I thought reading the House that Crack Built to the kids was a bit over the top the service was still very good. You should do it!
The house that crack built? Really? Okay I guess I am within the limits of normal. All I am trying to do is advocate looking at how we view God, how that seperates humanity, how our view of God or no God divides us and how can we change that. Things UU's are already very cognizant of though. Nothing really new for them.
Trey of Diamonds
Well-Known Member
Nothing really new for them.
Yep, but be very careful, you could end up walking out of the building wondering just how you got elected to the board.
LOL I had just that thing happen the other day. I got voted onto a board to be the VP and I just went to find out more about the issue. Now I have to read to get up to speed with what they are trying to accomplish. It wasn't a Unitarian Church, it was a Council for helping Foreign Trained Professionals to get help to find work in the professions they were educated in rather than driving a taxi when you are a doctor or engineer for example. Interesting, but I'm afraid I need to do a lot of studying in order to be of any use.:yes:Yep, but be very careful, you could end up walking out of the building wondering just how you got elected to the board.