The consequences of Christian Dominion Theology

[Kenny]

@KenS: You make my day. I went to quite a few churches. I like baptist for the singing, but none shared your view. All 4000 christians believed in Evangelizing (and that implied telling the other his religion was wrong and telling he was going to hell; I just was told so last sunday again).

Good to hear that American Christians are less fanatic than the Dutch Christians

In Holland American influences follow 10 year later. Hope that one flies over soon

I love these churches:

Hillsong Church Netherlands - Location and Service Times | Hillsong

I don't think I have ever heard them say believe or you are going to hell...

Although sharing faith with love is always a part of Christianity. But never should be forced.

 

[metis]

Yes... that is today. But a 1st Ammendment? That, actually, is a modern day interpretation that violated precedent:

Actually it is a much more realistic interpretation as all too often the separation of church & state provision got ignored. The public schools are not private nor parochial schools, thus they don't have a role to push any particular religious agenda per the Constitution.

I remember reading about one where someone sued the public school to not teach the Bible. The Supreme Court said (paraphrased) - "If you don't want the Bible taught, start a private school". (wish I could find it again.)

As it should be.

Let's say your child is in a public school, and the only religious prayers are Muslim, whereas one prays towards Mecca and the only scriptures covered is the Qu'ran. Is that OK with you? You know it wouldn't be.

LOL... but are you sure it isn't getting better because of all the proliferating private school and home schools that have to take the SAT and are factored in?

Our test scores here in Michigan are recorded in separate categories, so we know how they compare. Because private-schoolers here have only the option to take the standardized tests, if all were tested we don't know how that would turn out. Personally, I've never seen a tabulation of their scores here.

But there's another factor, and that is are the parents who do home schooling well prepared themselves? In a great many cases, my guess would be yes, probably because many to most of them are probably well-educated themselves. But what about the parents who don't have a good education? I would think that their kids are less likely to be home-schooled. Therefore, you may not be comparing apples to apples.

We have half a dozen teachers in our church and it doesn't look good.

Educators are really good at complaining, let me tell ya from 36 years of personal experience. I got so sick and tired of it that in my last 20 or so years of teaching, I didn't go to the staff lounge except on rare occasions.

Our home schools take tests and average far better according to the number:

See above.

BTW, have a great weekend, especially now that I'm done edjumacating you.

 

[metis]

High School Bans Students From Praying in Free Time

Stopping such a student(s) on their own time would violate the guidelines of the Michigan Department of Education, thus the district could be taken to court.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Christian Dominion Theology is not new, in fact i is an underlying foundation for Christianity since the rise of Roman Christianity, and underlying the the political, economic and theological basis for Manifest Destiny. Based on recent elections and polls about 40 to 50 percent of Americans support some sort of Christian Dominion Theology

From: Dominionism Rising: A Theocratic Movement Hiding in Plain Sight | Political Research Associates

In June 2016, Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) held a private meeting with conservative movement leaders to plot his political future. Attendees afterwards cast him in the role of Ronald Reagan, who’d lost the 1976 Republican presidential nomination to Gerald Ford but led a conservative comeback in 1980 that made Jimmy Carter a one-term president. The thinking was that Cruz did well enough in the 2016 Republican presidential primaries before losing to celebrity billionaire Donald Trump that he could plan to run again in 2020 or 2024. “He was with kindred spirits,” said Brent Bozell, the conservative activist who hosted the meeting, “and I would say most people in that room see him as the leader of the conservative movement.”1

The rise of Ted Cruz is a singular event in American political history. The son of a Cuban refugee and evangelical pastor, Cruz was raised in the kind of evangelicalism-with-a-theocratic-bent that has come to epitomize a significant and growing trend in American public life. That is, dominionism: a dynamic ideology that arose from the swirls and eddies of American evangelicalism to animate the Christian Right, and become a defining feature of modern politics and culture.

Dominionism is the theocratic idea that regardless of theological camp, means, or timetable, God has called conservative Christians to exercise dominion over society by taking control of political and cultural institutions. The term describes a broad tendency across a wide swath of American Christianity. People who embrace this idea are referred to as dominionists. Although Chip Berlet, then of Political Research Associates, and I defined and popularized the term for many in the 1990s2, in fact it had (along with the term dominion theology) been in use by both evangelical proponents and critics for many years.3

Dominionism is the theocratic idea that regardless of theological view, means, or timetable, Christians are called by God to exercise dominion over every aspect of society by taking control of political and cultural institutions.


Analyst Chip Berlet and I have suggested that there is a dominionist spectrum running from soft to hard as a way of making some broad distinctions among dominionists without getting mired in theological minutiae.106 But we also agree that:

1. Dominionists celebrate Christian nationalism, in that they believe that the United States once was, and should once again be, a Christian nation. In this way, they deny the Enlightenment roots of American democracy.
2. Dominionists promote religious supremacy, insofar as they generally do not respect the equality of other religions, or even other versions of Christianity.
3. Dominionists endorse theocratic visions, insofar as they believe that the Ten Commandments, or “biblical law,” should be the foundation of American law, and that the U.S. Constitution should be seen as a vehicle for implementing biblical principles.107

Of course, Christian nationalism takes a distinct form in the United States, but dominionism in all of its variants has a vision for all nations.

So you think that in the way Liberal democrats was taking the United States, was in the right way. If the United States had kept going in the way Liberal democrats wanted to take the United States,
There wouldn't be any United States to speak of within the next 4 to 8 years. Someone had to stop the Liberal democrats Radical nonsense. Why are the Liberal democrats wanting to disarm people, so Liberal democrats can control people, Liberal democrats are not what they use to be.
To day Liberal democrates will do anything for a vote, just so they can keep power over people, their greed for power has no limits.

The last great Liberal democrat President we had was JFK. And he had this saying
( Ask not what your Country can do for you, But ask what you can do for your Country)

Where as to day, Liberal democrats wants to give hand outs, don't worry your Country will do for you, So don't ask what you can do for your Country, But ask what your Country will do for you.
A big difference from Liberal democrate President JFK, to Liberal democrats of to day, You think.
Oh by the way, so you don't think I'm just another Conservative, Nope I was a big time Liberal democrate supporter for 45 years. Until I saw in the way how Liberal democrats of to day wants to take the United States down the road of destruction. It's to funny, but then it's not funny either, that how people are being fooled into believing that the DNC is on their side.
Yeah, just like every time it comes up to vote for the next President, Liberal democrats run to places like Chicago promising the black folks
everything under the sun, Until the Liberal democrat President, Then the black folks of Chicago and other places as of such,
gets nothing out of all the Promises. That was made to them.

 

[Phantasman]

Then you're saying the apostles didn't have it as head of the Church and that Jesus must have lied when he said he'd guide this Church until the end of time.

You are seeing one verse in Matthew (Rock). The gospel in it's entirety never mentions church by Christ (who is the voice of the Spirit). The "temple" (of the Jews) was destroyed by Christ when the veil was opened. The temple is the body of the individual, where Christ lives. The Spirit is the teacher, not men who claim such authority.

John:

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

The "church" is defined by Paul as the body of Christ, the saints, who have become sons of God through the Spirit, no matter where they are in the world. It is not a building, a doctrine, or a teacher.

We don't follow any man including the disciples or apostles. We follow the Spirit. It is through the Spirit we become one with Christ, and the disciples who were one with him. Man does not speak for the Spirit. The Spirit speaks for itself.

Peter is the one disciple that struggled in understanding. The church based on Peter has the same struggles. This is revealed for good reason.

John:
21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

The Spirit tells us what to follow and do. To depend on men just shows lack of faith in the Spirit.

 

[Phantasman]

Are you for real? This is filled with fake news.

I showed a litany of examples.

Apparently throwing more money at the problem hasn't fixed anything. Yes Liberal/Democratic states throw more money, have higher taxes and don't solve the problem... is that a plus?

Christians are the biggest giving block

It is not up to government schools to teach religion. It is up to government schools to teach children the basic education common to interact in the system(s) of the world and to succeed, through continuing knowledge, how to physically and mentally create their paths within such system.

The spirituality of individuals are taught through a different "schooling" depending on the individuals wants or needs. Schools aren't churches. But churches can be schools. It is a choice in this country how to raise (your) children. If you want them to learn religion, the government schools is the last place I would want my children to learn of "God". The government is political, and it's bad enough that the political aspects are being taught by many one sided teachers.

I don't trust government schools with something as precious as religious thought.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Dominionism is idolatry, IMHO. I've seen news articles about Christian mothers getting upset that little Johnny had to read about the 5 pillars of Islam. They were just mentioning it, not indoctrinating it, but who cares? The fact is, Jesus said that if your right arm causes you to sin, you should cut it off. Christianity in the US has caused many to sin. I won't complain too much and will probably laugh if it's just cut off because right now it's more trouble than it's worth.

 

[Phantasman]

Dominionism is idolatry, IMHO. I've seen news articles about Christian mothers getting upset that little Johnny had to read about the 5 pillars of Islam. They were just mentioning it, not indoctrinating it, but who cares? The fact is, Jesus said that if your right arm causes you to sin, you should cut it off. Christianity in the US has caused many to sin. I won't complain too much and will probably laugh if it's just cut off because right now it's more trouble than it's worth.

Probably. Just saying you are a Christian doesn't mean you are following Christ. Cutting off body parts is a spiritual message (of worth). If the flesh profits nothing (John 6), trashing body parts does nothing either.

 

[shunyadragon]

above your pay grade?

No!

I guess that means:

1) It wasn't false
2) In your biased viewpoint, just because it is a hostile environment against a religious activity in a public school doesn't constitute hostility in the public school.

The school was going to allow the activity, before or after school hours. The dispute was resolved in the courts. No hostility here whatsoever.

So... now that you couldn't refute that one (since you said your refuted all of them)

Again, not a case of hostility, just a difference as to when an activity could take place in the school. The activity was not forbidden and resolved in the courts as to when on school property could take place not whether it could take place.,

Again, no hostility involved here.

let's try number 2.



Student Sues Wisconsin School After Getting a Zero for Religious Drawing

This case is ten years old. What is the resolution in the courts? Schools do not stand alone in these cases, it depends on how the system and the courts handled it.

No problem here I believe the grade was wrong, but trivial disputes of the grade of a work of art by one teacher does not represent a hostile environment in the school system toward Christians

 

[shunyadragon]

So you think that in the way Liberal democrats was taking the United States, was in the right way. If the United States had kept going in the way Liberal democrats wanted to take the United States,

So I think?!?!?! Nothing in what I wrote remotely resembles this terrible statement. Read my post again and respond in context.

There wouldn't be any United States to speak of within the next 4 to 8 years. Someone had to stop the Liberal democrats Radical nonsense. Why are the Liberal democrats wanting to disarm people, so Liberal democrats can control people, Liberal democrats are not what they use to be.
To day Liberal Democrats will do anything for a vote, just so they can keep power over people, their greed for power has no limits.

The last great Liberal democrat President we had was JFK. And he had this saying
( Ask not what your Country can do for you, But ask what you can do for your Country)

Where as to day, Liberal democrats wants to give hand outs, don't worry your Country will do for you, So don't ask what you can do for your Country, But ask what your Country will do for you.
A big difference from Liberal democrate President JFK, to Liberal democrats of to day, You think.
Oh by the way, so you don't think I'm just another Conservative, Nope I was a big time Liberal democrate supporter for 45 years. Until I saw in the way how Liberal democrats of to day wants to take the United States down the road of destruction. It's to funny, but then it's not funny either, that how people are being fooled into believing that the DNC is on their side.
Yeah, just like every time it comes up to vote for the next President, Liberal democrats run to places like Chicago promising the black folks
everything under the sun, Until the Liberal democrat President, Then the black folks of Chicago and other places as of such,
gets nothing out of all the Promises. That was made to them.

Again nothing here addresses the topic of the thread nor what I posted. The only thing that is relevant is that in recent history Conservative Republican States are the lowest funding for public schools than liberal Democratic schools.

 

[Ponder This]

Again nothing here addresses the topic of the thread nor what I posted. The only thing that is relevant is that in recent history Conservative Republican States are the lowest funding for public schools than liberal Democratic schools.

Assuming you mean that Conservatives are associated with Christian Dominionists and Liberals are associated with Atheists... then this means Christian Dominionists are not trying to dominate public schools, but Atheists are?

 

[Kenny]

Actually it is a much more realistic interpretation as all too often the separation of church & state provision got ignored. The public schools are not private nor parochial schools, thus they don't have a role to push any particular religious agenda per the Constitution.

As it should be.

Let's say your child is in a public school, and the only religious prayers are Muslim, whereas one prays towards Mecca and the only scriptures covered is the Qu'ran. Is that OK with you? You know it wouldn't be.

I have no problem with everybody not praying in school. Also understand how times have changed. But having lived in a foreign country and being around everyone one pledging allegiance to a different flag and country, I really don't see what the big to do is about.

IF, I were in Arabia and people were praying to Allah, I wouldn't have a problem with it. If no other options were available and my children had to go to an Arabic school... ditto.

But to STOP Muslims from praying to Allah? or Christians and Jews to God? I would have a problem with that.

Our test scores here in Michigan are recorded in separate categories, so we know how they compare. Because private-schoolers here have only the option to take the standardized tests, if all were tested we don't know how that would turn out. Personally, I've never seen a tabulation of their scores here.

But there's another factor, and that is are the parents who do home schooling well prepared themselves? In a great many cases, my guess would be yes, probably because many to most of them are probably well-educated themselves. But what about the parents who don't have a good education? I would think that their kids are less likely to be home-schooled. Therefore, you may not be comparing apples to apples.

My daughter in law homeschools. Basically she is learning with the children, in other words, she is teaching herself while she is teaching her children.

The education far exceeds what I learned. You would be surprised at what is out there.

As far as tabulation, I think I showed the chart. Homeschoolers outscore.

Are there homeschoolers who aren't doing so good? For sure there are some but also in public schools.

Educators are really good at complaining, let me tell ya from 36 years of personal experience. I got so sick and tired of it that in my last 20 or so years of teaching, I didn't go to the staff lounge except on rare occasions.

No argument there

BTW, have a great weekend, especially now that I'm done edjumacating you.

Thanks Metis and likewise

 

[Kenny]

The school was going to allow the activity, before or after school hours. The dispute was resolved in the courts. No hostility here whatsoever.

Taken to courts BECAUSE of hostility

This case is ten years old. What is the resolution in the courts? Schools do not stand alone in these cases, it depends on how the system and the courts handled it.

OHHHHHHHhhh! I got it. When there is racism and it is settled in the courts there was no hostility.

Got it.

So... Case number 2 was also correct and wasn't debunked... it was just too old for you even though it takes years for it to go through court case-law

So let's go to case number three...

How about a Student who was humiliated in class during free reading time... A little closer in date.

- Teacher Tells Student He Can't Read the Bible in Classroom

 

[Buddha Dharma]

Ahhh this looks like a fun topic to jump back into the action on

Christian Dominion Theology is not new, in fact i is an underlying foundation for Christianity since the rise of Roman Christianity

Yes and that is ironic given that Jesus was 100% opposed to oppressive political establishments. That more than anything probably led to his crucifixion. It's an overlooked part of Jesus's message that he was a political activist very much against the oppressive mores of his society and the ruling power.

Today, dominionists represent this 'status quo' mentality of the traditional institutions having to be defended at any cost.

What MOST Christians realize is that the educational system has increasingly become a promoter of secularism. AND even secular people and non-Dominion Christians will agree with the premise that the educational system is going from bad to worse.

I would hope it's supporting secularism as this is a secular country. What I see is that Republicans have constantly made our system fail and then bewailed it for failing. They pull this political maneuver quite a lot.

Religion as it manifests today, has no issue with science, it loves science on its own defined terms addictively. Like a heroin addict.

An interesting observation that I for my part acknowledge.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Assuming you mean that Conservatives are associated with Christian Dominionists and Liberals are associated with Atheists... then this means Christian Dominionists are not trying to dominate public schools, but Atheists are?

Your absolutely right. Just look at all the schools closing to go and protest, which have Liberal democrats teachers, So think if that was conservative teachers promoting kids and schools to close so conservative kids could go and protest.
There were kids that did not go to protest and got expelled from school. Because they chosen not to go.
But we don't see any Liberals protesting over this.
So who's in control of the schools ????
But seeing how Christian teachers are coming up through the ranks to teach in the schools again.
Your Right big time, But Atheists are.
And to think it's Atheists that says, kids are being indoctrinated, So who's indoctrinating that kids in schools ????

 

[stvdv]

How about a Student who was humiliated in class during free reading time... A little closer in date.

- Teacher Tells Student He Can't Read the Bible in Classroom

Are we talking North Korea here. OMG, but in Holland stuff is also upside down nowadays
I really do not hope Bahai will attack this one

 

[David T]

Ahhh this looks like a fun topic to jump back into the action on



Yes and that is ironic given that Jesus was 100% opposed to oppressive political establishments. That more than anything probably led to his crucifixion. It's an overlooked part of Jesus's message that he was a political activist very much against the oppressive mores of his society and the ruling power.

Today, dominionists represent this 'status quo' mentality of the traditional institutions having to be defended at any cost.



I would hope it's supporting secularism as this is a secular country. What I see is that Republicans have constantly made our system fail and then bewailed it for failing. They pull this political maneuver quite a lot.



An interesting observation that I for my part acknowledge.

Yes.... metaphysics is funny. The ancients had a story about metaphysics. They said " if you understand few will understand you."...

The story goes " God himself could come as a man, he could have special close followers he trained for years, they could in person walk with him ,watch him walk on water ,raise the dead, feed 10,000. But none of them would understand him and they would flee the moment he died. That's precisely how hard the topic actually is.

Odd because every Tom Dick and harry today picking up the bible is convinced they understand , all they need is to read and believe. Believers are convinced of this. Atheists are even more convinced of this, Agnostics are convinced, just unsure which convinced to choose. Theologians are the worst btw. It's all just all "normal" to me.
I say a bit of beer, not a lot, a campfire out in the wilderness, and some guitars seems infinitely more sane to me than civilization but that's me.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Are we talking North Korea here. OMG, but in Holland stuff is also upside down nowadays
I really do not hope Bahai will attack this one

Yeah and to think back the bible was the number one book that was used in schools to teach how to read, spell, write from.
That thru all of this, is what lead people to want freedom from dictatorships Governments.
Lets see, the very words we use in Reading, Writing, Spelling all were learned from the bible.

The first words that were used on the first printing press was the scriptures from the bible.

 

[shunyadragon]

Yeah and to think back the bible was the number one book that was used in schools to teach how to read, spell, write from.
That thru all of this, is what lead people to want freedom from dictatorships Governments.
Let's see the very words we speak a

We, at least most of us I hope, have advanced past Bronze and Iron Age mythology. We now teach the sciences and history for a modern world. King's English and Latin are dead languages. We are moving toward Democracy, separation church and state, and theocracies ruling by Divine Decree.

 

[shunyadragon]

Assuming you mean that Conservatives are associated with Christian Dominionists and Liberals are associated with Atheists... then this means Christian Dominionists are not trying to dominate public schools, but Atheists are?

At present Christian Dominionists and the Republican Party are dominated by Fundamentalist Christians and the extreme Right Tea Party (maybe one and the same). I am a moderate conservative Republican with no party, therefore I am registered Independent. I have not associated atheists with any specific party nor movement, because there are simply too few atheists to actually count nor influence politics, only about 3.0 percent.