JoshuaTree
Flowers are red?
Of course atheists can't believe in predestination either, but atheists believe man wrote the bible not God.
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The Creationist's Argument and its Greatest Weakness
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
Skwim
Veteran Member
JoshuaTree
Flowers are red?
Atheists believe they have free will and God is not in control (or even exists) right?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
There are some atheists that believe in determinism. That would mean that free will is an illusion. I am not sure myself and realize that one must act as if free will existed.
Skwim
Veteran Member
Nope. I'm an agnostic (essentially a non-believer in god) and I have a couple of friends who are atheists, and we all reject the notion of free will.
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JoshuaTree
Flowers are red?
I'd like to discuss determinism with you guys sometime I'll research it first
Skwim
Veteran Member
Great. Let us know when you're ready. My argument for it is quite short and easily understood.
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ecco
Veteran Member
Source?
ecco
Veteran Member
Atheists are not born again. How can we be saved if we are not born again?
ecco
Veteran Member
That works for me.
Looncall
Well-Known Member
This scam is pretty nifty. I suppose it keeps the pews and collection plates full.
Audie
Veteran Member
Hmm.. BB says he does not lie, so, which is it?
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
Jesus's words appear in the Bible. The Bible definition of born again is not adhered to by Catholics because:
1) Rome strongly de-emphasizes Bible study
2) Individual Catholics have a passing acquaintance with Bible study
It would be little different if you started a Christian cult without using the Bible. I follow Jesus (Christianity/Christian) and READ WHAT HE SAID TO DO SO.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
and now you are treating your personal interpretation of the Bible as if it were that of most Christians. Being "born again" is mostly a U.S. fundy concept.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
The Bible, which is the container that holds the words of Christ, says, "be born again," "do not be surprised I said be born again" and "be born again to get to Heaven".
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
The Cross and Resurrection has moved some atheists to be born again. To answer your question directly, IMHO you cannot be saved if you refuse to be born again:
1) Man must be transformed to be in a utopia, not pulling it down
2) Transformation comes from God
3) The Cross is the perfect dying for the imperfect
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Quoting out of context does not help you.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
It's a "scam" to say all men lie?
It's a "scam" to say all men lie in the OT, documents binding only on the Israelites, whose religious leaders had their power, income and wives limited by the OT? And couldn't even own land in the OT times?
Looncall
Well-Known Member
The christian scam is making people think themselves automatically degenerate and so dependent on religion for salvation. That has been keeping clergy on easy street for millenia.
ecco
Veteran Member
I don't know what specific cult/sect you belong to, but I suspect most Catholics would state that you are not True Christian.