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The current 'transgender' community and 'movement'

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Using deprecated terms gets jokes. *shrug*

Virtually all =/= all. She's saying most trans go through a gender questioning and androgynous stage which is true in my experience with the trans friends I have. Though I trust her to have a lot more experience within the trans community than I do.

Which I think would mean about as much to her as if someone said 'you've just got cisnormative ideas which comes with internalized transphobia' but to each their own.
Her experience isn't any more valid than mine and my experiences differ from hers, and just because you can find some trans person who happens to agree with your socio-political views means nothing to me. We're not a hive mind.

Actually people like her, with her views, are a dime a dozen in the trans community now so this just demonstrates what I discussed in my OP.

Edit: Right before I cut it off, I heard her say she's also non-binary. So I'm not surprised she holds views like that. I've known a trans woman like her who transitioned and then started calling herself a 'demigirl' out of the blue. She also had similar views.
 
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VoidCat

Use any and all pronouns including neo and it/it's
Actually, I should be more clear. It's critical gender theory I'm opposed to. It's an attempt to critique and deconstruct the normative Western culture view of gender. It's the same as critical race theory but applied to sex and gender, basically. It is mostly found in the gender studies departments of colleges but also elsewhere.
I am really tired and not in the mood to search my brain for info. I'll come back to this. Brain is blanking on stuff even tho I know I know a lot on the topic. I might even agree with you or disagree. It doesn't help I recently had a meltdown. I can write but I've lost the ability to speak.Ill have to come back when my brain properly reboots.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
I am really tired and not in the mood to search my brain for info. I'll come back to this. Brain is blanking on stuff even tho I know I know a lot on the topic. I might even agree with you or disagree. It doesn't help I recently had a meltdown. I can write but I've lost the ability to speak.Ill have to come back when my brain properly reboots.
Take care of yourself.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Her experience isn't any more valid than mine and my experiences differ from hers, and just because you can find some trans person who happens to agree with your socio-political views means nothing to me. We're not a hive mind.

Actually people like her, with her views, are a dime a dozen in the trans community now so this just demonstrates what I discussed in my OP.
You experience isn't any more valid than hers, either. Nor nonbinary transgender people, or transgender people who never medically transition.

Anyway, I didn't link her because I always agree with her (and I don't, my views are much more postmodern) but because I think she articulates the issue well.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
You experience isn't any more valid than hers, either. Nor nonbinary transgender people, or transgender people who never medically transition.

Anyway, I didn't link her because I always agree with her (and I don't, my views are much more postmodern) but because I think she articulates the issue well.
In case you missed the point, I distance myself from trans things now. They can have it. I don't want it. I don't even call myself by the same terms they use, and that is very much on purpose. They just shouldn't claim to represent me, and the results of their rhetoric and behavior is something I view as harmful. They are driving people out of the community, as well.
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
You experience isn't any more valid than hers, either. Nor nonbinary transgender people, or transgender people who never medically transition.

Anyway, I didn't link her because I always agree with her (and I don't, my views are much more postmodern) but because I think she articulates the issue well.

She's also, ironically in this conversation, gotten **** from non-binary folks for being a "transmedicalist" and all this kind of stuff, just as Frank reports he has, despite her defense of non-binary identities.
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
In case you missed the point, I distance myself from trans things now. They can have it. I don't want it. They just shouldn't claim to represent me and the results of their rhetoric and behavior is something I view as harmful. I don't even call myself by the same terms they use, and that is very much on purpose.

So what is it you'd like to debate, Frank? It seems like you're just saying, "modern trans people are wrong, I'm right, so there," and don't want to actually talk about your areas of disagreement. So is this just a declaration of where you stand, or is there something you actually want to talk about?
 

VoidCat

Use any and all pronouns including neo and it/it's
You experience isn't any more valid than hers, either. Nor nonbinary transgender people, or transgender people who never medically transition.

Anyway, I didn't link her because I always agree with her (and I don't, my views are much more postmodern) but because I think she articulates the issue well.
I watched the video. There are no subtitles and I had trouble following cuz of the fact I had a meltdown and auditory issues so I'll have to watch it again later. So far from what I caught the person in the video did a good job but I dont know will have to watch again. Loved the glitter beard. Wish I had one.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
In case you missed the point, I distance myself from trans things now. They can have it. I don't want it. I don't even call myself by the same terms they use, and that is very much on purpose. They just shouldn't claim to represent me, and the results of their rhetoric and behavior is something I view as harmful. They are driving people out of the community, as well.
That seems normal.
If you're no longer transitioning, then you are what you transitioned to, eh.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I watched the video. There are no subtitles and I had trouble following cuz of the fact I had a meltdown and auditory issues so I'll have to watch it again later. So far from what I caught the person in the video did a good job but I dont know will have to watch again. Loved the glitter beard. Wish I had one.
There should be closed captioning options (cc). But I think there's a transcript archive somewhere. I'll try and find it. :)
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
So what is it you'd like to debate, Frank? It seems like you're just saying, "modern trans people are wrong, I'm right, so there," and don't want to actually talk about your areas of disagreement. So is this just a declaration of where you stand, or is there something you actually want to talk about?
Honestly, I mostly just put it in this area because I expect it to turn into a debate at some point, somewhere. Lol.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Here, I wanted to post my thoughts on the state of the transgender community and movement, as I see it as a transsexual man.

I am a transsexual man. I transitioned to male years ago, and have been on testosterone for close to a decade now. I've been open about being FtM as long as I've been here, so there's nothing new there. I'm no outsider when it comes to this.

I have to say that I feel almost nothing in common with the current 'transgender' community and 'trans activism'. It's awfully alienating to me. I totally reject what is called 'gender theory', the attempt to downplay biological sex differences and the push for a 'gender-fluid' society, all of which are very popular among young urban people who identify as trans in some way. This is a more recent development as many older trans people, especially those who transitioned in previous decades, do not hold those viewpoints, and this has lead to very much infighting between the two factions.

A large part of the problem seems to stem from 'transgender' becoming viewed as an umbrella term recently. It is often used as a synonym for gender non-conformity and so the boundaries of who and what is included in the definition have shifted considerably. In the beginning, the word basically had the same connotation as 'transsexual' in that it referred to a person who identified as and at least wished to transition to the opposite sex. But somewhere around the '90s or so, activists started broadening it to include other groups as they came to view gender as more of a mere performative social construct. Eventually this viewpoint seeped into the larger community as a whole.

I personally disagree with that use of the word 'transgender', but that's not the only reason I don't use it. I also don't prefer that term because it's totally inaccurate to describe a person like me in such a way. I am changing my biological, as well as legal, sex to suit my identity as a male. I am not changing my "gender". It has little to do with social concepts of gender. I don't view 'trans' as an identity. I simply view myself as a man/male.

Which brings me to the fact that due to the broadening of the definition of 'transgender' has caused many sundry groups to be included, which have little to do with each other, such as non-binary people and transsexuals like me. You have people who strongly desire to transition and live as the opposite sex and are at suicide risk if they do not do so, such is their suffering from dysphoria, being broadly included with cross dressers and people who feel little to no dysphoria, and may not even identify as anything. The goals and needs of these groups are very different and are at odds.

Many transsexuals, such as myself, simply wish to live as the sex we transitioned to and get on with our lives. Many of us do not talk about it or wave flags and banners around. We do not want to spark a revolution calling for the destruction of gender norms or making distinctions between the sexes. We don't want to ban gender reveal parties or sex on birth certificates. Many of us find such things offensive, as well as the notion of having to declare our pronouns (mine should be obvious). So many of these considerations trample over the desires and needs of transsexual people.

Personally, I do not view being transsexual as a source of pride. This has nothing to do with self-hatred or society. It is simply because dysphoria is an extremely painful condition to have to endure and you must rely on medical treatment for your whole life to be treated for it. This is not something I like being reminded of as it is painful to me. I am proud of the fact that I'll have to spend my whole life injecting testosterone every week into myself and have costly surgeries just to feel at home in my body. No 'trans pride' flags for me.

Transsexuals with my opinions are treated more and more as outcasts in what is supposed to be 'our community'. We are called terms like 'transmedicalist' as smears. We are seen as the trans version of 'Uncle Tom' types by radical activists, simply for asking for reason and logic in these matters. I experienced this myself in discussions and debates with other trans people, online and in person.

This also serves to shut down criticism, even when it's healthy and compassionate. I attended a support group for trans people here for years. Many kinds of people passed through. Many of them were evidently not trans at all. Many suffered from serious mental illnesses and were genuinely confused about their identity. Others were transvestites and had a sexual fetish. Many different things going on. But it has become taboo to speak honestly and point out the obvious, that a person isn't necessarily trans merely because they feel they are or might be. There's no room for suggesting other possibilities. You're generally expected to accept whatever others say about themselves at face value, even if you feel they are endangering themselves or it plainly doesn't make sense.

Compassion is key and we should certainly strive to extend it towards all. But certainly there's many people who would've been saved from making very bad decisions if only someone was honest with them. This is obvious when it comes to the number of people detransitioning, who are mostly pretty young. So these people are being let down in the name of a rather insidious type of relativism towards reality.

There are also 'gender bending' things promoted in the media such as 'pregnant men' who breastfeed, and trans women impregnating people, proudly sporting beards and going on about their penises that I find disturbing and offensive, as do other trans people. These things make us look like circus freaks in the minds of others and causes them to take us less seriously.

So, after years of being a part of it in my city, I can safely say I am no longer a member of the trans community and do not miss it. It has lost the plot.
Very interesting and informative post.

Alas I am more familiar with the left leaning gender critical crowd.
Though I do certainly realise, like every demographic on the planet, transsexual people will have a wide variety of opinions and beliefs.

Could the schism you speak of also just be a generational divide?
By that I mean there are certainly older gay conservative (by Australian standards) folks who seem baffled by the lingo and activism present among the younger LGBTQ+ crowd.

Younger folk always explore in broader parameters than their elders.
Whether that’s identity, theory or even academically. Unfortunately that exploration does tend to cause a lot of friction with their peers and elders.
I feel like this is happening with the non binary crowd. No doubt future generations will explore identities outside of even gender fluidity.
Humans are on a very wide spectrum and I feel like we have barely scratched the surface.

I’m very much live and let live.
Whatever makes you happy, whichever identity makes you feel valid, go for your life. If you identify as a man, then you are a man and I am happy you’ve found happiness.
 
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Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
She's also, ironically in this conversation, gotten **** from non-binary folks for being a "transmedicalist" and all this kind of stuff, just as Frank reports he has, despite her defense of non-binary identities.
Honestly, I don't really know much about this person. I don't really follow "YouTube personalities".
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
Honestly, I mostly just put it in this area because I expect it to turn into a debate at some point, somewhere. Lol.

LOL. Okay. I still like you no matter what, Frank. :D

I hope you find some community that you can identify with, even if it's not the LGBTQ one. Most of us are pretty decent in my experience, although we have a few nuts in the jar as any group does. ;):p
 
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