The current 'transgender' community and 'movement'

[Saint Frankenstein]

I consider myself trans as transgender to me means someone who doesn't identify as the gender they were assigned at birth. I dont identify as the gender I was assigned. Therefore I am transgender.

If you want to call yourself that fine, but it has nothing to do with me me, that's obvious. To me, this isn't that great because transsexuals have been defined out of something that was about us in the beginning. So we're being put in a position to have to to reclaim older words to differentiate ourselves.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

(I checked. Gender dysphoria was first medically recognized in 2013)

Specifically as that. Prior to it was known as Gender Identity Dysphoria. So the diagnosis is not new. It was around before me. We just called it something else.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Specifically as that. Prior to it was known as Gender Identity Dysphoria. So the diagnosis is not new. It was around before me. We just called it something else.

Before Gender Dysphoria it was Gender Identity Disorder, and it wasn't considered the same as Gender Dysphoria, and the change was lobbied to remove it from being considered a medical disorder/chronic mental illness. The two terms aren't interchangeable. But that wasn't really my point. Just that gender studies is ever evolving and the terms and topics change by the year, which I think we agree on, just not how often it circulates in the YouTube essayists.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Before Gender Dysphoria it was Gender Identity Disorder, and it wasn't considered the same as Gender Dysphoria, and the change was lobbied to remove it from being considered a medical disorder/chronic mental illness. The two terms aren't interchangeable. But that wasn't really my point. Just that gender studies is ever evolving and the terms and topics change by the year, which I think we agree on, just not how often it circulates in the YouTube essayists.

The only reason they aren't "properly" interchangeable is because gender identity dysphoria no long exists as a diagnosis. But, it is entirely inaccurate to say there were no diagnosis prior to the DSM V, that's it's a new thing, and that anything is fundamentally different. The DSM isn't a bible, most clinicians hardly use it for more than IDC 10 codes for billing, and on it really changed nothing. Much how the DSM V doing away with the Asperger's diagnosis. That really didn't change anything except billing codes.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Before Gender Dysphoria it was Gender Identity Disorder, and it wasn't considered the same as Gender Dysphoria, and the change was lobbied to remove it from being considered a medical disorder/chronic mental illness. The two terms aren't interchangeable. But that wasn't really my point. Just that gender studies is ever evolving and the terms and topics change by the year, which I think we agree on, just not how often it circulates in the YouTube essayists.

They basically just changed the name of it, which was the real source of controversy.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They basically just changed the name of it, which was the real source of controversy.

Yeah. And it really is a damned if you do-damned if you don't situation with insurance. Clinicians themselves generally do not believe gender dysphoria is in-and-off itself an illness, but the conditions it can lead to (such as depression) certainly are, with poor treatment from other's being a far greater concern than semantics of a diagnoses from a book clinicians don't often use anyways. But, if it's not a diagnosis, then insurance will not cover anything. There's no arguing this. They will not. So, what can you do?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They basically just changed the name of it, which was the real source of controversy.

And to drive the point some more, I was in therapy before and after DSM V. Literally nothing changed from a clinical perspective. And being a clinician, nothing changed. Yes, I could tell one of my clients probably did have Asperger's. But that or Autism, it doesn't change who he is as a person, it doesn't change treatment goals and strategies, and it doesn't mean treating him any differently.
And that too was a controversial as many of us are on the high-functioning side, and don't need such extensive intervention as many other forms of autism.
And then gender identity disorder to gender dysphoria? I was seeing a therapist who didn't accept insurance so in that regard literally absolutely nothing changed at all because she doesn't even use diagnoses except when writing recommendation letters (although she did say she could tell that I probably have aspergers).

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Well said, Frankenstein. I am sympathetic to those who are either fit the gender dysphoria definition as well as the myriads of others who now find themselves confused about their gender identity. I can not say "empathic" because I can not put myself in your shoes; it is beyond me. I believe gender dysphoria to be a very real, definable, diagnose-able, true condition; but I also believe that there are many out there who identify as "trans" but who really aren't. I do not believe that we are truly doing those who are struggling a disservice by simply throwing a label on them and blindly accepting their claim without criticism and forethought.

I knew a man who believed himself to be trans, though everything about him said "male": His interests, his past sexual activity, how he communicated, thought, walked, etc; Come to find out, he was mercilessly abused by his father growing up who beat him for playing with dolls and called him a "sissy" all his life. I personally do not believe he is trans; I believe he was a severely wounded human being who struggled to find his own identity and be comfortable in it. What little I know about the issue said to me that his behavior, as a child and now, did not meet the criteria for true gender dysphoria as I believe it to manifest. I strongly suspect that he believed he was "less than a man", and that qualified him to be "female". Yet the last I knew of him, many years ago, he was planning to transition. His story is so very different than the stories of those whom I accept their claim of gender dysphoria. Social justice warriors are deeply hurting people like him by attempting to convince him he is something that he probably is not; rather than trying to help him figure it out and apply critical thought and a small dose of skepticism to his claim. I really feel for this guy.

I like everything you said in your OP. We live in a day and age where the plight of polarized thinking is tearing apart families, countries, and lives; and alienating the majority who do not see life through such rigid, black and white goggles.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Well said, Frankenstein. I am sympathetic to those who are either fit the gender dysphoria definition as well as the myriads of others who now find themselves confused about their gender identity. I can not say "empathic" because I can not put myself in your shoes; it is beyond me. I believe gender dysphoria to be a very real, definable, diagnose-able, true condition; but I also believe that there are many out there who identify as "trans" but who really aren't. I do not believe that we are truly doing those who are struggling a disservice by simply throwing a label on them and blindly accepting their claim without criticism and forethought.

I knew a man who believed himself to be trans, though everything about him said "male": His interests, his past sexual activity, how he communicated, thought, walked, etc; Come to find out, he was mercilessly abused by his father growing up who beat him for playing with dolls and called him a "sissy" all his life. I personally do not believe he is trans; I believe he was a severely wounded human being who struggled to find his own identity and be comfortable in it. What little I know about the issue said to me that his behavior, as a child and now, did not meet the criteria for true gender dysphoria as I believe it to manifest. I strongly suspect that he believed he was "less than a man", and that qualified him to be "female". Yet the last I knew of him, many years ago, he was planning to transition. His story is so very different than the stories of those whom I accept their claim of gender dysphoria. Social justice warriors are deeply hurting people like him by attempting to convince him he is something that he probably is not; rather than trying to help him figure it out and apply critical thought and a small dose of skepticism to his claim. I really feel for this guy.

I like everything you said in your OP. We live in a day and age where the plight of polarized thinking is tearing apart families, countries, and lives; and alienating the majority who do not see life through such rigid, black and white goggles.

From what I've heard about the behavior of reddit trans forums, there are a lot of them who really are "dudes in a dress," (like when they post dick pics of themselves) and that tells me there a lot of people, including therapists, who are doing us a great disservice by taking some of these people at their own words. It's really hard to justify letting us use the restrooms when people can find stuff like that, so-called trans people behaving like toxic men.
And then there are those who basically do nothing in regards to transitioning but want to be accepted as what they are claiming all the same. And those who are basically just tomboys, effeminate men, and people who don't really learn towards being masculine or feminine showing up to trans meetings. Or they'll claim to be FtM, but be wearing cute and feminine accessories.
None of this is helping us as a community for who we are as having a very deep and fundamental conflict between the way our body is and how our brains are wired. We don't really relate to that, it's not who we are. It's cool people are comfortable being themselves, but accepting people at their word may very well create a bad bathroom situation. It already has created a bad situation for me with someone who should not be considered trans.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I knew a man who believed himself to be trans, though everything about him said "male": His interests, his past sexual activity, how he communicated, thought, walked, etc; Come to find out, he was mercilessly abused by his father growing up who beat him for playing with dolls and called him a "sissy" all his life. I personally do not believe he is trans; I believe he was a severely wounded human being who struggled to find his own identity and be comfortable in it. What little I know about the issue said to me that his behavior, as a child and now, did not meet the criteria for true gender dysphoria as I believe it to manifest. I strongly suspect that he believed he was "less than a man", and that qualified him to be "female". Yet the last I knew of him, many years ago, he was planning to transition. His story is so very different than the stories of those whom I accept their claim of gender dysphoria. Social justice warriors are deeply hurting people like him by attempting to convince him he is something that he probably is not; rather than trying to help him figure it out and apply critical thought and a small dose of skepticism to his claim. I really feel for this guy.

Interestingly, I knew someone who was very much like that. They were beaten by their sadistic adoptive father for being feminine, and then forced into very macho roles in youth. Then they decided they were trans I guess around 5 years ago and have been off and on hormones for about 3 or 4 years. They are a very unstable and confused person. They really only present as a woman in private. Even then, it's often like a fetish thing. Transitioning has not made this person's life better, I'm afraid.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

From what I've heard about the behavior of reddit trans forums, there are a lot of them who really are "dudes in a dress," (like when they post dick pics of themselves) and that tells me there a lot of people, including therapists, who are doing us a great disservice by taking some of these people at their own words. It's really hard to justify letting us use the restrooms when people can find stuff like that, so-called trans people behaving like toxic men.
And then there are those who basically do nothing in regards to transitioning but want to be accepted as what they are claiming all the same. And those who are basically just tomboys, effeminate men, and people who don't really learn towards being masculine or feminine showing up to trans meetings. Or they'll claim to be FtM, but be wearing cute and feminine accessories.
None of this is helping us as a community for who we are as having a very deep and fundamental conflict between the way our body is and how our brains are wired. We don't really relate to that, it's not who we are. It's cool people are comfortable being themselves, but accepting people at their word may very well create a bad bathroom situation. It already has created a bad situation for me with someone who should not be considered trans.

Very well said.

 

[Friend of Mara]

I knew a man who believed himself to be trans, though everything about him said "male": His interests, his past sexual activity, how he communicated, thought, walked, etc; Come to find out, he was mercilessly abused by his father growing up who beat him for playing with dolls and called him a "sissy" all his life. I personally do not believe he is trans; I believe he was a severely wounded human being who struggled to find his own identity and be comfortable in it. What little I know about the issue said to me that his behavior, as a child and now, did not meet the criteria for true gender dysphoria as I believe it to manifest. I strongly suspect that he believed he was "less than a man", and that qualified him to be "female". Yet the last I knew of him, many years ago, he was planning to transition. His story is so very different than the stories of those whom I accept their claim of gender dysphoria. Social justice warriors are deeply hurting people like him by attempting to convince him he is something that he probably is not; rather than trying to help him figure it out and apply critical thought and a small dose of skepticism to his claim. I really feel for this guy.

Not to ressurect a half-year old thread but I wanted to comment on that.

While it is possible someone might develop issues based out of abuse lets not paint a brush on what pre-transition closeted trans people are like. Prior to transition many are totally normal looking and acting for their gender. Especially if early on they started showing interest in "girly" things for MtF transition was met with abuse.

So with that aside it takes a lot of therapy and real in-depth care to wriggle through their issues. I would at least hope a competent therapists would be able to differentiate trauma based coping mechanisms with gender dysphoria. Its a serious undertaking in many parts of the US to even get a letter to start transitioning. The emergence of non-binary identities has, imho, added a useful buffer for those going through gender related issues. Back in the 80's, 90's and even into the 2000's there was a hard line laid in the sand for many medical professionals when it came to transition. Even in more accepting countries it was an all or nothing approach that often required commitment to surgeries and left little room for people to "feel out" their identities through the processes.

Anyway I wish the best for your friend.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I honestly don't care much for the LGBT+ community as a movement at times, either. However, they beat the alternative - people who just want to allow few and be selective with others - something I also don't agree with. So as it stands, an enemy of my enemy is my friend, so I support the LGBT+ community. Even if we're talking more 'opponents' and not real enemies. And I'd take the same stance when it comes to some hard to swallow subjects on Leftist politics. I'll still support some hard to swallow Leftist policies because I find the alternative worse, is what I'm saying. That alternative being people who want a theocracy, people wishing to put Trump back in office, people wishing to downplay science and medical science, etc.

 

[Friend of Mara]

I honestly don't care much for the LGBT+ community as a movement at times, either. However, they beat the alternative - people who just want to allow few and be selective with others - something I also don't agree with. So as it stands, an enemy of my enemy is my friend, so I support the LGBT+ community. Even if we're talking more 'opponents' and not real enemies. And I'd take the same stance when it comes to some hard to swallow subjects on Leftist politics. I'll still support some hard to swallow Leftist policies because I find the alternative worse, is what I'm saying. That alternative being people who want a theocracy, people wishing to put Trump back in office, people wishing to downplay science and medical science, etc.

There are cringe takes for sure by people that might associate with the same mantle but underlying solidarity for a common goal is a desirable outcome.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Here, I wanted to post my thoughts on the state of the transgender community and movement, as I see it as a transsexual man.

I am a transsexual man. I transitioned to male years ago, and have been on testosterone for close to a decade now. I've been open about being FtM as long as I've been here, so there's nothing new there. I'm no outsider when it comes to this.

I have to say that I feel almost nothing in common with the current 'transgender' community and 'trans activism'. It's awfully alienating to me. I totally reject what is called 'gender theory', the attempt to downplay biological sex differences and the push for a 'gender-fluid' society, all of which are very popular among young urban people who identify as trans in some way. This is a more recent development as many older trans people, especially those who transitioned in previous decades, do not hold those viewpoints, and this has lead to very much infighting between the two factions.

A large part of the problem seems to stem from 'transgender' becoming viewed as an umbrella term recently. It is often used as a synonym for gender non-conformity and so the boundaries of who and what is included in the definition have shifted considerably. In the beginning, the word basically had the same connotation as 'transsexual' in that it referred to a person who identified as and at least wished to transition to the opposite sex. But somewhere around the '90s or so, activists started broadening it to include other groups as they came to view gender as more of a mere performative social construct. Eventually this viewpoint seeped into the larger community as a whole.

I personally disagree with that use of the word 'transgender', but that's not the only reason I don't use it. I also don't prefer that term because it's totally inaccurate to describe a person like me in such a way. I am changing my biological, as well as legal, sex to suit my identity as a male. I am not changing my "gender". It has little to do with social concepts of gender. I don't view 'trans' as an identity. I simply view myself as a man/male.

Which brings me to the fact that due to the broadening of the definition of 'transgender' has caused many sundry groups to be included, which have little to do with each other, such as non-binary people and transsexuals like me. You have people who strongly desire to transition and live as the opposite sex and are at suicide risk if they do not do so, such is their suffering from dysphoria, being broadly included with cross dressers and people who feel little to no dysphoria, and may not even identify as anything. The goals and needs of these groups are very different and are at odds.

Many transsexuals, such as myself, simply wish to live as the sex we transitioned to and get on with our lives. Many of us do not talk about it or wave flags and banners around. We do not want to spark a revolution calling for the destruction of gender norms or making distinctions between the sexes. We don't want to ban gender reveal parties or sex on birth certificates. Many of us find such things offensive, as well as the notion of having to declare our pronouns (mine should be obvious). So many of these considerations trample over the desires and needs of transsexual people.

Personally, I do not view being transsexual as a source of pride. This has nothing to do with self-hatred or society. It is simply because dysphoria is an extremely painful condition to have to endure and you must rely on medical treatment for your whole life to be treated for it. This is not something I like being reminded of as it is painful to me. I am proud of the fact that I'll have to spend my whole life injecting testosterone every week into myself and have costly surgeries just to feel at home in my body. No 'trans pride' flags for me.

Transsexuals with my opinions are treated more and more as outcasts in what is supposed to be 'our community'. We are called terms like 'transmedicalist' as smears. We are seen as the trans version of 'Uncle Tom' types by radical activists, simply for asking for reason and logic in these matters. I experienced this myself in discussions and debates with other trans people, online and in person.

This also serves to shut down criticism, even when it's healthy and compassionate. I attended a support group for trans people here for years. Many kinds of people passed through. Many of them were evidently not trans at all. Many suffered from serious mental illnesses and were genuinely confused about their identity. Others were transvestites and had a sexual fetish. Many different things going on. But it has become taboo to speak honestly and point out the obvious, that a person isn't necessarily trans merely because they feel they are or might be. There's no room for suggesting other possibilities. You're generally expected to accept whatever others say about themselves at face value, even if you feel they are endangering themselves or it plainly doesn't make sense.

Compassion is key and we should certainly strive to extend it towards all. But certainly there's many people who would've been saved from making very bad decisions if only someone was honest with them. This is obvious when it comes to the number of people detransitioning, who are mostly pretty young. So these people are being let down in the name of a rather insidious type of relativism towards reality.

There are also 'gender bending' things promoted in the media such as 'pregnant men' who breastfeed, and trans women impregnating people, proudly sporting beards and going on about their penises that I find disturbing and offensive, as do other trans people. These things make us look like circus freaks in the minds of others and causes them to take us less seriously.

So, after years of being a part of it in my city, I can safely say I am no longer a member of the trans community and do not miss it. It has lost the plot.

Thank you for recommending this to me. It made me sad and happy.