Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
No disagreements here. (weird)
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The Death Penalty
- Thread starter Mr Spinkles
- Start date
No disagreements here. (weird)
I agree with you there. I was just trying to show with numbers that racism and discrimination are not the leading factor for the numbers themselves. Some people were looking at the raw numbers/percentages and assuming discrimination, but when you investigate further you can clearly see why there is a difference.
logician
Well-Known Member
Much of this is still explained by discrimination, either by society (blacks have no job opportunities thus must resort to criminal lifestyles to survive), and discrimination of the justice system.
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
I dunno. It sounds like you're saying the disparity of oppurtunity between classes is just racism from another angle. Is that accurate?
logician
Well-Known Member
Turn on the TV, see any signs of racism?
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
Of course. That doesn't mean they're the same thing.
Poisonshady313
Well-Known Member
Let's pick one state as an example.
North Carolina.
As of January 2009, there are 88 black people on death row... 65 white people on death row in North Carolina...
And they haven't executed anybody this year. I kinda picked that one at random.
Let's go again:
Ohio.
On death row as of Jan 2009
93 blacks, 81 whites, 3 latino, 2 asian, 2 Native American
Executed in 2009
3 whites, 1 black.
Regardless of how many black people there are on death row, the only way to determine how biased executions are is by counting up executions in any given year.
You'd figure that the more black people on death row, the more black executions.
That is absolutely wrong.
In 33 years, there are only two states who have executed more black people than white people...
Maryland and Nebraska.
And each of those states executed exactly one more black person than white people..
i.e. Maryland executed 3 black people, and 2 white people.
Nebraska... 2 black people, 1 white person.
And that's the total for 33 years
By comparison, here's Texas:
total executions of the course of 33 years:
161 blacks, 203 whites, 72 latinos, 2 asians and 2 native americans
You want to argue that black people are disproportionately arrested, disproportionately convicted... maybe even disproportionately sentenced to death... fine.
But the notion that black people are disproportionately executed is false.
North Carolina.
As of January 2009, there are 88 black people on death row... 65 white people on death row in North Carolina...
And they haven't executed anybody this year. I kinda picked that one at random.
Let's go again:
Ohio.
On death row as of Jan 2009
93 blacks, 81 whites, 3 latino, 2 asian, 2 Native American
Executed in 2009
3 whites, 1 black.
Regardless of how many black people there are on death row, the only way to determine how biased executions are is by counting up executions in any given year.
You'd figure that the more black people on death row, the more black executions.
That is absolutely wrong.
In 33 years, there are only two states who have executed more black people than white people...
Maryland and Nebraska.
And each of those states executed exactly one more black person than white people..
i.e. Maryland executed 3 black people, and 2 white people.
Nebraska... 2 black people, 1 white person.
And that's the total for 33 years
By comparison, here's Texas:
total executions of the course of 33 years:
161 blacks, 203 whites, 72 latinos, 2 asians and 2 native americans
You want to argue that black people are disproportionately arrested, disproportionately convicted... maybe even disproportionately sentenced to death... fine.
But the notion that black people are disproportionately executed is false.
I think Logician is just infected with so much white guilt that he cannot see clearly anymore. If you truly strive for equality then not only do we have to conquer racism, but this white guilt needs to be squashed as well, because it is stifling this country at the moment.
Perfect Circle
Just Browsing
:clap
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I am against the death penalty. Not only because it risks putting an innocent person to death, but also taking one life for another really doesn't solve anything.
Poisonshady313
Well-Known Member
Jessy Carlos San Miguel, executed in Texas in 2000.
San Miguel was convicted of the capital murder of Michael Phelan and three others during the armed robbery of a Taco Bell restaurant in Irving, Texas. On January 26, 1991 San Miguel and 17 year old friend, Jerome Green, waited outside a Taco Bell restaurant that was closed and locked for the night. When an employee opened the door to take out the trash, the pair went inside and forced the assistant manager, Michael John Phelan, to wait for a time-lock safe to open. Then they herded Phelan, employee Theresa Fraga, 16, and Theresa's cousin, Frank Fraga, 23, into a walk-in freezer. Theresa Fraga was also pregnant at the time. The robbers noticed Son Trang Nyugen, 35, a friend of the Fragas who was waiting to take them home, sitting in a vehicle outside and also forced him into the freezer with the other victims. San Miguel and Green then left the restaurant with the money. A few minutes later, San Miguel decided to go back inside the restaurant and the freezer where his hostages were. In a confession to police, San Miguel said he "asked them to give him a good reason why he shouldn't kill them", then shot them each in the head at close range with a 9 mm pistol. San Miguel was pulled over in his car later that morning and police found bundles of money in a Taco Bell sack and a pistol later determined to be the murder weapon. Accomplice Jerome Green pled guilty and was sentenced to 50 years imprisonment and is eligible for parole in 2004.
It would have been barbaric to let San Miguel live.
I certainly wouldn't want my tax dollars feeding this murderer or providing him health care for the rest of his life. He was 20 years old when he was received by the Department of Corrections. He was 29 when he was executed.
San Miguel was convicted of the capital murder of Michael Phelan and three others during the armed robbery of a Taco Bell restaurant in Irving, Texas. On January 26, 1991 San Miguel and 17 year old friend, Jerome Green, waited outside a Taco Bell restaurant that was closed and locked for the night. When an employee opened the door to take out the trash, the pair went inside and forced the assistant manager, Michael John Phelan, to wait for a time-lock safe to open. Then they herded Phelan, employee Theresa Fraga, 16, and Theresa's cousin, Frank Fraga, 23, into a walk-in freezer. Theresa Fraga was also pregnant at the time. The robbers noticed Son Trang Nyugen, 35, a friend of the Fragas who was waiting to take them home, sitting in a vehicle outside and also forced him into the freezer with the other victims. San Miguel and Green then left the restaurant with the money. A few minutes later, San Miguel decided to go back inside the restaurant and the freezer where his hostages were. In a confession to police, San Miguel said he "asked them to give him a good reason why he shouldn't kill them", then shot them each in the head at close range with a 9 mm pistol. San Miguel was pulled over in his car later that morning and police found bundles of money in a Taco Bell sack and a pistol later determined to be the murder weapon. Accomplice Jerome Green pled guilty and was sentenced to 50 years imprisonment and is eligible for parole in 2004.
It would have been barbaric to let San Miguel live.
I certainly wouldn't want my tax dollars feeding this murderer or providing him health care for the rest of his life. He was 20 years old when he was received by the Department of Corrections. He was 29 when he was executed.
richardlowellt
Well-Known Member
Sure it does, we know beyond doubt that this person will never kill again. It also sends a message that one has to pay the ultimate price for their actions.
richardlowellt
Well-Known Member
Maybe he should have been executed by the same method used in his original crime!
kai
ragamuffin
i guess the death penalty doesn't deter the likes of Jessy Carlos San Miguel?
Tell me folks does our job to punish the guilty take precedence over protecting the innocent?
According to the Innocence Project, 135 death row inmates have been exonerated since the death penalty was reinstated in 1976. But how many people weren't exonerated in time?
http://civilliberty.about.com/b/200...nocent-men-executed-by-the-state-of-texas.htm
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kai
ragamuffin
Isnt the law there by consent? don't we agree to abide by the law? those that operate outside the law are not deterred by it. The Law is for us not them.
McBell
Admiral Obvious
red herring.
your argument is that the death penalty did not work to deter Jessy Carlos San Miguel from murdering.
I merely point out that neither did the law.
So if we get rid of the death penalty because it did not deter Jessy Carlos San Miguel then should we not also get rid of the law that didn't deter him either?
kai
ragamuffin
its more of a fact than an argument, San Miguel operated outside the law , deterrence only works if you are deterred.
The law is there to remove the likes of San Miguel from the law abiding society. whether you kill him is another matter. I can accept revenge or its the cheaper option argument but i don't think it actually deters.
Thats just my opinion.I would rather lock up thousands of murderers for life no matter how much it costs, than kill one innocent man.and it looks like the state of Texas has killed many more innocents than San Miguel, just in a different manner.
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