The debate of God.

[Averroes]

God says in the Qur'an what means that on judgement day, those who are sent to Hell will ask God to be resent back to Earth, and to do better deeds and have a great faith, and he says that even if they are resent back, he knows that they will never do it (made by their own free will and free choice).
If you decide not to follow any of the known prophets, then it's your own personal choice and nobody but yourself is responsible of it (and that means God isn't responsible of that choice) as for me, I beleive in the prophets for those who ask to do good in life and never asked for somethign in return during their life. I simply think, they have no reason to lie, they are just sending us the message and doing what they are told to do.
" Muhammad being the last prophet in your religion does not help me believe because in order for me to believe in your Muhammad I need to have faith." this sentance doesn't make much sense to me, except that your asking for a perfect knowledge in God and not faith.
Before blaming God for children who have cancer, and the misery in the world, why dont we see what humans did that caused that suffery? Ever heard of food causing cancer? or pollution? or the tons of different things that human did wrong because of their greediness for money and own selfish reasons? After we do that, we can see that some children dies from natural causes, and some suffery is caused by "nature", well God does send children to heaven where that suffery would be forgotten. On another hand, suffery is needed to make people aware of things, and to teach them lessons that they would learn moral values and other lessons from them, so eventualy that suffery would be for better causes.
Miracles happen all the time, never heard of people who sometimes have incurable diseases and be cured without a reason? It's wrong to ask God for a miracle for oneself in order to beleive, every person needs God and needs to have faith and we can't spend our life waiting for a miracle to happen to start beleiving.
Faith in God isn't something so complicated, it's simply an invitation for forgiveness and a better place in the afterlife, and each human is free to accept or decline, as for me a smart choice would be to accept.

This is why I am neither Muslim, Christian, or Jewish


Its not that I don't value the theology of Islam, I mean after all, my username is Averroes, the greatest Muslim philosopher of his time. My point is that God cares too much about rules, worship, and reading his word.

Do you know how many Muslims tell me "if you don't believe in Islam you're going to hell?"

Do you know how many Christians tell me the same thing?

Do you honestly think telling me about the day of judgement and how people begging to be sent back to earth because of the fear of hell is supppsed to bring me comfort and suddenly want to convert?

Dude there are so many interpretations of Islam Muslims theirselves can't even agree on a universal consensus. All what Islam, Judaism, and Christianity teaches me is that God is a petty deity who hates what he has created, vain because he wants his creation to glorify him when if your God, within yourself you know you're great, jealous because God wants to be worshipped alone.

To me the Abrahamic faiths make God resemble a freggin human.

Something so great has to be beyond all that, and by beyond I mean much more and thus cannot be categorized. Even saying God ia problematic.

Life is hard as it is but because I choose not to follow one of the thousands of interpretations of Islam I should be concerned? You guys don't give God more credit.

 

[Landerage]

This is why I am neither Muslim, Christian, or Jewish


Its not that I don't value the theology of Islam, I mean after all, my username is Averroes, the greatest Muslim philosopher of his time. My point is that God cares too much about rules, worship, and reading his word.

Do you know how many Muslims tell me "if you don't believe in Islam you're going to hell?"

Do you know how many Christians tell me the same thing?

Do you honestly think telling me about the day of judgement and how people begging to be sent back to earth because of the fear of hell is supppsed to bring me comfort and suddenly want to convert?

Dude there are so many interpretations of Islam Muslims theirselves can't even agree on a universal consensus. All what Islam, Judaism, and Christianity teaches me is that God is a petty deity who hates what he has created, vain because he wants his creation to glorify him when if your God, within yourself you know you're great, jealous because God wants to be worshipped alone.

To me the Abrahamic faiths make God resemble a freggin human.

Something so great has to be beyond all that, and by beyond I mean much more and thus cannot be categorized. Even saying God ia problematic.

Life is hard as it is but because I choose not to follow one of the thousands of interpretations of Islam I should be concerned? You guys don't give God more credit.

We are not trying to tell you that Islam is the only way for salvation and that everyone should be a muslim. Many people might say that to you, perhaps because they care, or perhaps they havea high level of faith but lacks communicating the essential purpose of that faith with others.
The Quranic idea I mentioned wasnt in the purpose that you wrote, I was simply aiming that God have the greatest wisdom and he wouldnt punish a person who did nothing wrong. You took things a little personal I guess.
I think Islam is the most well united qnd gatherd religion at the moment, the rules are clear, the holy Qur'an holds no doubt, a verse in the Qur'an might be interpreted in many ways, but that doesnt mean that It would be misguiding. And to be a good muslim, those are enough. But that isnt a reason for not seeking the core of religion. The image you hold of Islam and Christianity is very wrong, I think you know very well what those religion asks for: forgiveness, peace, justice, unity. And your twisting things that are pretty much lies. In Islam God loves his all his creatures, your idea of God is way deviated from what I beleive in. And indeed God is beyound everything, and whatever idea we have, its not even near God, but through prayers, faith etc.. the idea tends to come closer. All humans are equal for God, if two persons who knows the same informations, one of them beleived in God, and the other didnt, it would be fair enough to punish the one who didnt.

 

[Averroes]

We are not trying to tell you that Islam is the only way for salvation and that everyone should be a muslim. Many people might say that to you, perhaps because they care, or perhaps they havea high level of faith but lacks communicating the essential purpose of that faith with others.
The Quranic idea I mentioned wasnt in the purpose that you wrote, I was simply aiming that God have the greatest wisdom and he wouldnt punish a person who did nothing wrong. You took things a little personal I guess.
I think Islam is the most well united qnd gatherd religion at the moment, the rules are clear, the holy Qur'an holds no doubt, a verse in the Qur'an might be interpreted in many ways, but that doesnt mean that It would be misguiding. And to be a good muslim, those are enough. But that isnt a reason for not seeking the core of religion. The image you hold of Islam and Christianity is very wrong, I think you know very well what those religion asks for: forgiveness, peace, justice, unity. And your twisting things that are pretty much lies. In Islam God loves his all his creatures, your idea of God is way deviated from what I beleive in. And indeed God is beyound everything, and whatever idea we have, its not even near God, but through prayers, faith etc.. the idea tends to come closer. All humans are equal for God, if two persons who knows the same informations, one of them beleived in God, and the other didnt, it would be fair enough to punish the one who didnt.

In my philosophy of religion class an Imam came and spoke about Islam. This was shortly after 9/11.

One of the things he said was "according to our faith, if you do not follow Islam the religion of God, you're going to hell."

I was immediately turned off. However I have heard Muslims say he was just an extreme fundamentalist. Some Muslims argued for him. The point is, I can't follow a God that cares so much about what I do in my personal life that does not involve harming others.

How come God doesn't just all people to be wrong in this life and correct in the next?

Why does God need to torture my soul because I believe in multiple deities, after all I could be easily mistaken.

Muslims say if you heard the call to Islam you are now responsible.....

I say,

Do you understand the psychological implications? Most Muslims aren't qualified theologians let alone scholars on classical Arabic. Its rare to run into a Muslim scholar everyday. So all my information either comes from Muslim followers, online bloggers, news media, etcetera.

The call to Islam varies and its hard for people who have practiced the religion of their forefathers to abandon that for a relatively new religion.

I think Muslims lose sight of that.

Telling people about hell especially if they're ignorant of your faith is to traumatize them mentally so they fear God instead of being curious. Christians and Muslims do have that in common.

I am intelligent enough to know that if God exist he knows every possible thought and idea we think of, and if that is true and I find that being sent to hell for an arbitrary belief is petty, I am sure God already knows about how petty that can be.

 

[crystalonyx]

"The debate of God"

What's the debate? Atheists believe based upon the evidence, theists belive on faith, the two are not compatible with each other.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

"The debate of God"

What's the debate? Atheists believe based upon the evidence, theists belive on faith, the two are not compatible with each other.

Life is so simple ...

... for some.​

 

[Corkscrew]

It's not a cruel joke, Averroes, it's the consequence of free will

If God wanted all people to believe in Him, He could have done so, but He didn't because He created us with a free will

Free will means the free choice to believe or disbelieve, and if one believes the freedom to obey or disobey.

God wants us to believe in Him and obey Him by our own free will and He gave us what we need to take that "right" decision

The meaning of the verse you mentioned is that those who choose to disbelieve, (not because they are convinced that God does not exist but because they want to live this life the way they please), would not change their minds even if God showed them His angels. This is one verse (6:111)

"And even if We had sent down to them the angels [with the message] and the dead spoke to them [of it] and We gathered together every [created] thing in front of them, they would not believe unless Allāh should will. But most of them, [of that], are ignorant." (6:111)

God allows a seeker of truth to believe when He knows that this person is really searching for the Truth

Only He knows our intentions ...

Wow, that seems very complicated. You know, there is a much simpler alternative to consider that requires no further explanation - God doesn’t exist.

 

[doppelganger]

i'm speaking from experience...and i'm mature enough to know that the reason of comfort wasn't unique.

It's actually very uncomfortable for some people. It's usually comfort in my experience, but I think a more precise way to understand it is to see it as accomplishing some important psychological function (which may vary). It can be to help manage feelings of severe depression, self-destructive behaviors (like drug addiction), guilt. If those feelings are powerfully painful enough, a person can have a very uncomfortable vision of their relationship to God and use it as a means of coping with something else.

 

[Caladan]

I feel as though the whole debate over God has been going the wrong way. Atheists many times give reasons why religions make no sense. Theists many times try and come up with scientific evidence for god. They work occasionaly, but I feel they aren't the correct ways of going about this.

I think it woul be best to figure out exactly why people believe what they do. What I mean by that is that every theist, of any religion, have their own personal reasons why they believe, and vice versa. I think we should get to the core of why people believe, and perhaps we can see more people becoming atheists, or (though I hope not) more people becoming theists

Does anyone disagree?

I think the problem (if you choose to look at it as a problem) is that there is plenty of grey area.
'atheists' fall under too broad an umbrella, and so do 'theists'. in plenty of cases theism or at least religious thought may be a projection of cultural elements. technically I am an atheist, I am definitely a naturalist, but it doesn't mean I think that 'religion makes no sense'. religion has various importance. cultural, historical, even environmental. my atheism or naturalism focuses more on exploring the natural sciences and not necessarily about how I am at odds with theism.

 

[cablescavenger]

I feel as though the whole debate over God has been going the wrong way. Atheists many times give reasons why religions make no sense. Theists many times try and come up with scientific evidence for god. They work occasionaly, but I feel they aren't the correct ways of going about this.

I think it woul be best to figure out exactly why people believe what they do. What I mean by that is that every theist, of any religion, have their own personal reasons why they believe, and vice versa. I think we should get to the core of why people believe, and perhaps we can see more people becoming atheists, or (though I hope not) more people becoming theists

Does anyone disagree?

I believe what I do because having been indoctrinated at an early age, I was able to discard religion as nonsense, before I caught the bug.

 

[waitasec]

It's actually very uncomfortable for some people. It's usually comfort in my experience, but I think a more precise way to understand it is to see it as accomplishing some important psychological function (which may vary). It can be to help manage feelings of severe depression, self-destructive behaviors (like drug addiction), guilt. If those feelings are powerfully painful enough, a person can have a very uncomfortable vision of their relationship to God and use it as a means of coping with something else.

let me pose this question....
if belief in god wasn't an option, do you think people would be less inclined to to contribute to society, and ultimately to them selves, in a positive manner?
i realize it's a hard question to answer because belief in god has had an undeniable presence in society....it's just a thought that popped into my head when reading your response

 

[Averroes]

let me pose this question....
if belief in god wasn't an option, do you think people would be less inclined to to contribute to society, and ultimately to them selves, in a positive manner?
i realize it's a hard question to answer because belief in god has had an undeniable presence in society....it's just a thought that popped into my head when reading your response

Are you implying that religion relates to pure altruism?

 

[doppelganger]

let me pose this question....
if belief in god wasn't an option, do you think people would be less inclined to to contribute to society, and ultimately to them selves, in a positive manner?

I don't think individuals' capacity for compassion and/or social responsibility break neatly along the divide of theist/non-theist. So no, I wouldn't expect it to make any difference.

 

[Riverwolf]

Wow, that seems very complicated. You know, there is a much simpler alternative to consider that requires no further explanation - God doesn’t exist.

Just as "Goddidit" is simpler than the theory of evolution and requires no further explanation.

(just fyi, I do accept the theory of evolution).

 

[Landerage]

In my philosophy of religion class an Imam came and spoke about Islam. This was shortly after 9/11.

One of the things he said was "according to our faith, if you do not follow Islam the religion of God, you're going to hell."

I was immediately turned off. However I have heard Muslims say he was just an extreme fundamentalist. Some Muslims argued for him. The point is, I can't follow a God that cares so much about what I do in my personal life that does not involve harming others.

How come God doesn't just all people to be wrong in this life and correct in the next?

Why does God need to torture my soul because I believe in multiple deities, after all I could be easily mistaken.

Muslims say if you heard the call to Islam you are now responsible.....

I say,

Do you understand the psychological implications? Most Muslims aren't qualified theologians let alone scholars on classical Arabic. Its rare to run into a Muslim scholar everyday. So all my information either comes from Muslim followers, online bloggers, news media, etcetera.

The call to Islam varies and its hard for people who have practiced the religion of their forefathers to abandon that for a relatively new religion.

I think Muslims lose sight of that.

Telling people about hell especially if they're ignorant of your faith is to traumatize them mentally so they fear God instead of being curious. Christians and Muslims do have that in common.

I am intelligent enough to know that if God exist he knows every possible thought and idea we think of, and if that is true and I find that being sent to hell for an arbitrary belief is petty, I am sure God already knows about how petty that can be.

Well that Imam surely dont know the ways to communicate, if he want to spread Islam by threatening people with Hell as a start. I should remember you, that wasnt the way that prophet Mohammed pbuh on him used to spread Islam, he gain the hearts of his followers through his good moral values, his honesty, his promise for salvation if they shall folow him, but even more, with having great attitude towards those who didnt follow him, and more would say lies about him. You should really read e biography of the prophet tp understand Islam better if you are seeking that, and not base your opinion on what that Imam said or that person said.
I know that you cant meet a scholar everyday, but you dont need to, the Qur'an, the prophets biography and the Hadith are enough resources to know well about Islam.
Every person who knew what Islam truely asks for, and found in his logic, feelings and sensations that it is the best way to go in life, but refuted what his mind is telling him, it would mean that he lied, and delibaretely chose a wrong path after he knew what was right to do, such a person would be rightfully punished. Same goes for a person who refuse to listen to those who are wiser then him, or a person who would tell those who spread Islam that they are lying, and turn people against them. Same goes for any person opposing any religion without deep knowledge and a great reason. However a person living in the jungle away from any civilisation who never got invited to have faith in God, or never thougt about it would be the least punished among those people. Why wouldnt God punish a person who have been told that God is one and been offered an authentic religion, but still refused that idea, and beleived in multiple deities based on nonesense? The origins of most polytheist religions is very foggy and far from being authentic, and those hold much more "interpretations" then Islam.
Thanks for mentioning that idea about God, God said in the Qur'an, what means that all human beings are equal. Why would a person deserve to have more ideas about how right it is to beleive in God then another person who have all sort of atheists beleifs? People would be judged based on their knowledge and the wrong choices they made on purpose, and God knows better if faith have entered someone's heart but that person rejected it for no reason, and it all varies in different degrees, some have high faith, some have low faith but eventualy w're all equal.

 

[waitasec]

Are you implying that religion relates to pure altruism?

no...

 

[waitasec]

I don't think individuals' capacity for compassion and/or social responsibility break neatly along the divide of theist/non-theist. So no, I wouldn't expect it to make any difference.

i agree with this and when you said:

It can be to help manage feelings of severe depression, self-destructive behaviors (like drug addiction), guilt. If those feelings are powerfully painful enough, a person can have a very uncomfortable vision of their relationship to God and use it as a means of coping with something else.

i thought, belief in god can help someone as well as hurt them
just like any other habit can

we overcompensate for our inadequacies...

no one is perfect...well except for me of course :sarcastic

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Life is so simple ...

... for some.
​

Life is generally as complicated as you make it. Sadly, a lesson few learn before it's too late.

 

[InChrist]

Why doesn’t God come down and settle this whole argument?

He did come down.

 

[waitasec]

He did come down.

moot.

 

[Corkscrew]

Just as "Goddidit" is simpler than the theory of evolution and requires no further explanation.

(just fyi, I do accept the theory of evolution).

I’m not sure I would classify magic as not requiring an explanation. It just seems that people go out of their way to work God into the mix when there is no need. Evolution seems a lot more natural to me. But don’t get me wrong, I know there are things we don’t understand and I am not one to close my mind to possibilities. I just don’t believe man is on the right track with their religious beliefs.