Gui10
Active Member
I am one that thinks that when we die we become simple flesh and bone matter with no life.
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The Debate of God.
- Thread starter Daviso452
- Start date
I am one that thinks that when we die we become simple flesh and bone matter with no life.
Gui10
Active Member
I am probably not as educated you you are Thief so I don't understand what you just wrote there.
godnotgod
Thou art That
The problem comes the moment we say 'substance' or 'spirit'. The one implies the other. It is the trap of dualism in which the conceptual mind attempts to split the oneness of reality in two as it's way of 'making sense' of it.
godnotgod
Thou art That
Now you're just playing games.
C'mon, Thief. You can do better than this. What you are calling the 'obvious' is nothing more than your own conjectures about something you call the 'afterlife'.
Once again, all you really know for certain, is that you are here, now. Any talk of an 'afterlife' is just your wishful thinking. I am not saying it is untrue, it's just that you need to have a basis for saying that it is true, and that it is 'obvious' simply won't do.
Most of us come into this life not remembering our source, why we are here, who we are, or what happens after death. The result for many is what we call 'metaphysical anxiety' or 'distress'. And so, the conceptual mind creates the idea of an 'afterlife' along with a heavenly parent to watch over us. This provides comfort in a mysterious, insecure world where death is always imminent, and avoids the real spiritual work that results in a truly enlightened mind.
"The idea of 'another realm' is a substantive, delusive idea'.
Shunryu Suzuki, founder, SF Zen Center
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godnotgod
Thou art That
Who is this "I" that thinks and dies and becomes yadda yadda yadda?
That decaying 'simple flesh and bone matter' is very much alive, as decay is the action of living bacteria and other macrophages at work. A 'dead' body is teeming with life. Conversely, we, as living creatures, consume 'dead' plant and animal matter in order to nourish 'life'.
The body in death is nothing more than form in transformation, in which consciousness, as a living human being, is no longer supportive. But what about that consciousness?
*****
The Human Route
Coming empty-handed,
going empty-handed -- that is human.
When you are born, where do you come from?
When you die, where do you go?
Life is like a floating cloud which appears.
Death is like a floating cloud which disappears.
The floating cloud itself originally does not exist.
Life and death, coming and going, are also like that.
But there is one thing which always remains clear.
It is pure and clear, not depending on life and death.
Then what is the one pure and clear thing?
Zen Master Seung
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godnotgod
Thou art That
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Thief
Rogue Theologian
I'm playing games?.....how shallow an accusation!
You do proof read your own posts...don't you?
So address the obvious....
billions of copies of a form that results in unique spirits....
and you think it all for nothing.
(apparently that's what you believe in...nothing)
Billions of people are nothing....so say you.
All of this is an illusion...so say you.
And you think I have an anxiety?
How shallow an assumption.
Address the obvious....go look in a mirror.
Call yourself an accident....or nothing...
whichever makes you feel better.
godnotgod
Thou art That
I never said it was for nothing, but that does not mean life has a purpose other than the complete living of it in this present moment.
There are billions of 'unique' snowflakes, but they are all made of the same substance. They exist for a brief time, and then dissolve back into the undifferentiated state from which they emerged, and they're not bothered by the fact that they don't go on in their present form in some 'next life'. They're too focused on being what they are now in perfect joy to be concerned with an 'afterlife'.
Don't you see what joy it is to dissolve your form into nothingness, so that your true nature can then be free to go on in some new adventure? Maybe it'll just be a surprise. What are you worried about? That you'll die? You're already dead if you insist on clinging to an image of yourself as you have been, which you fight tooth and nail to perpetuate it's miserable existence into some future life, while ignoring the only reality you have now, which is this eternal Present Moment.
This IS the afterlife you have been waiting for! Best live it before it's all gone.
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Thief
Rogue Theologian
Poor comparison.
This chemistry is life....developing into another life.
Your snowflake denial is shallow.
godnotgod
Thou art That
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Oh! real sharp there!
and the definition for metaphor doesn't have the word 'comparison' in it?
Curious George
Veteran Member
Hold that thought- let me check my checklist; okay; okay; okay; okay; wait- you mean my life started already? Damn!
godnotgod
Thou art That
A comparison is of two distinct things, such as the comparison of one variety of apple with another. Here there is no representation of one type of apple for the other.
A metaphor is a symbolic representation of one thing for another, such as: "Her eyes were as blue as the Danube river"
metaphor: defined by The Free Dictionary as: A figure of speech in which a word or phrase that ordinarily designates one thing is used to designate another, thus making an implicit comparison.
So, while it is a comparison to begin with, it is further a substitution, while a simple comparison is not.
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godnotgod
Thou art That
Not the llfe bound by the ticking clock of linear time, but the one outside of time, which had no beginning, and therefore has no end. Both are here now. You choose the one to live.
godnotgod
Thou art That
Thief
Rogue Theologian
It appears not believing in an afterlife, is a stone in your path.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Gui10
Active Member
You are so irrelevant.
This ''I'' is me. There is absolutely no need to take any further than this.
Secondly, you haven't taught me anything about biology by telling me that a dead body is full of life. You must of misunderstood my previous statement in which I meant that when we die, we longer are alive. Yes our body still exists and it nourishes the earth but our inability to think of ourselves because our brain is dead ultimately deems our person lifeless, as in consciousness-less. At least thats what I think.
godnotgod
Thou art That
Oh, but there is. Who, or what, is this "I" that is also "me" to which "you" refer?
I claim it to be a hallucination.
godnotgod
Thou art That
To understand how we, as humans, though seemingly unique, are made of the same common stuff underneath the outward appearances, just as all unique snowflakes are made of water. Though unique, they all dissolve away into nothingness. Why are we any different?
Can you bring it here and show it to me?