The Debate of God.

[Lenbenhear]

If GOD, THE ETERNAL, is not on your radar screen, perhaps it is because you are not properly plugged in.

THAT, plus the fact that (likely) you have decided in your little mind & soul that YOU are the "replacement" for GOD. ... well, i hate to tell you: but IT DON'T WORK THAT WAY.

GOD, among other things, IS THE MORAL CENTER of the universe.

 

[Lenbenhear]

and GOD IS LOVE, ... but He is NOT "a doting grandfatherly type."

HE requires you learn your moral lessons WELL.

and He is TRUTH, ... and He is absolutely impartial Justice.

 

[Lenbenhear]

Oh, and for those who are "hung-up" on gender: GOD is referred to as a "HE" because He is, in essence, masculine-active CREATOR. ... but He also encompasses the perfected qualities of BOTH male and female. - thus He transcends all human & imperfect designations and labels.

 

[jasonwill2]

I believe Satan = God because it has always shown it to be true to me.

 

[InfidelRiot]

My imaginary goddess is better than your imaginary god.

 

[Thief]

Even Causation is illusory.

1st observer: the flag is moving
2nd observer: no, the wind is moving
3rd observer: wrong! both flag and wind are moving!
passerby: all wrong! your minds are moving!

Causation can only take place in Time and Space, so without them, is also illusory.

When you mistake a rope for a snake, the 'snake' is not caused, because it never existed to begin with.

Time does not exist at all...it is indeed illusion.

Consider the Cause at the point of creation.

 

[godnotgod]

Hail Satan: The varieties of theistic ("traditional") Satanism

As everyone can see from the above link, Satanism is very diverse. I don't see why it wouldn't work as a universal religion of liberation and freedom.

There are at least two major problems with such a view:

One is that, like Christianity, it is an EXTREME view, and secondly, also like Christianity, it is based on IDOLATROUS LOVE:

I. APPARENT LOVE OF OTHERS BY PROJECTION OF THE EGO

This is Idolatrous Love, in which the ego is projected onto another being [eg.; "Jesus"]. The pretension to divinity as "distinct" has left my organism and is now fixed on the organism of the other. The affective situation is one in which the other has taken my place in my scale of values. I desire the existence of the other-idol, against everything that is opposed to him. I no longer love my own organism except insofar as it is the faithful servant of the idol; apart from that I have no further sentiments towards my organism, I am indifferent to it, and, if necessary, I can give my life for the safety of my idol (I can sacrifice my organism to my Ego fixed on the idol; like Empedocles throwing himself down the crater of Etna in order to immortalize his Ego). As for the rest of the world, I hate it if it is hostile to my idol; if it is not hostile and if my contemplation of the idol fills me with joy (that is to say, with egotistical affirmation), I love indiscriminately all the rest of the world. If the idolized being rejects me to the point of forbidding me all possession of my Ego in him, the apparent love can be turned to hate.

from ’Zen and the Psychology of Transformation: The Supreme Doctrine’, by Hubert Benoit; Pantheon Books, ISBN 0-89281-272-9

In addition, besides being extreme, it is also a polarized view, its opposite being that of Christianity, and in so doing, is RELATIVE, rather than an ABSOLUTE. Neither can exist without the other; they are interdependent.

 

[godnotgod]

If GOD, THE ETERNAL, is not on your radar screen, perhaps it is because you are not properly plugged in.

THAT, plus the fact that (likely) you have decided in your little mind & soul that YOU are the "replacement" for GOD. ... well, i hate to tell you: but IT DON'T WORK THAT WAY.

GOD, among other things, IS THE MORAL CENTER of the universe.

You are projecting a human value system of morality onto an 'other', and in so doing, are making the tail wag the dog. This is how humans create a God that favors them and condemns others; a God whose 'side' they are on, and how they are deemed 'worthy' of Heavenly Reward, while others are 'unworthy' and condemned to Hell. This system is a product of Ego, and is designed to put itself in the best possible light by downgrading others, and to perpetuate itself into eternity. It galvanizes this kind of toxic thinking in others by creating a scenario of guilt and a spiritual debt that can never be paid, ala Crucifixion.

The Goodness of the Absolute is not a moral Good in contrast to moral Evil; it is an Absolute Good of Peace and Harmony beyond all dualities.

The dualistic God of moral Good and Evil pits them against each other in eternal conflict.

To oppose Evil via the dictates of a moral concept of The Good is only to make Evil stronger. This ignorant approach is built into the Abrahamic religions.

 

[godnotgod]

... how can the finite grasp or "perfectly define" THE INFINITE. how can a creature of time grasp or truly understand ETERNAL BEING. ? they can't. only in part, ... and as HE WILLS to reveal Himself *by revelation*.

If that is the case, then why does Christianity attempt to do exactly that, in encapsulating the Infinite in human form, namely that of Jesus Christ?

 

[godnotgod]

Time does not exist at all...it is indeed illusion.

Consider the Cause at the point of creation.

Causation (change) can only occur in Time and Space, but Time and Space did not exist at the point of 'creation', according to orthodox theology. Causation had to have come into being after Time and Space were 'created'.

The other problem with your position is that of infinite regression.

 

[jasonwill2]

There are at least two major problems with such a view:

One is that, like Christianity, it is an EXTREME view, and secondly, also like Christianity, it is based on IDOLATROUS LOVE:

I. APPARENT LOVE OF OTHERS BY PROJECTION OF THE EGO

\

Did you even ******* read the page? There was nothing extreme about it! That is not what was on that page. It was a comparison of some forms of Theistic Satanism. Theisticsatanism.com is the most tame (as in not being dogmatic or shoving things or ideas down your throat), liberal and friendly, site that there is on Satanism out there because unlike others Diane Vera is actually level headed about it all.

It isn't "an extreme in the other direction" as some ignorant people put it.


edit: about what you said about love via the ego, you seem to be confusing LaVeyan Satanism (a form of Atheistic Satanism formed in 1966) with Theistic Satanism, the latter being very diverse and eclectic and containing many traditions.

 

[Thief]

Causation (change) can only occur in Time and Space, but Time and Space did not exist at the point of 'creation', according to orthodox theology. It had to have been created after Time and Space came into being.

The other problem with your position is that of infinite regression.

And the regression leads back to the void....and the Creator.
No problem here.

 

[godnotgod]

Did you even ******* read the page? There was nothing extreme about it! That is not what was on that page. It was a comparison of some forms of Theistic Satanism. Theisticsatanism.com is the most tame (as in not being dogmatic or shoving things or ideas down your throat), liberal and friendly, site that there is on Satanism out there because unlike others Diane Vera is actually level headed about it all.

It isn't "an extreme in the other direction" as some ignorant people put it.


edit: about what you said about love via the ego, you seem to be confusing LaVeyan Satanism (a form of Atheistic Satanism formed in 1966) with Theistic Satanism, the latter being very diverse and eclectic and containing many traditions.

Her home page has in its beginning lines the following statement:

[SIZE=+1]"A theistic Satanist, also known as a "traditional Satanist," "spiritual Satanist," or "Devil Worshiper," is one who does believe in and worship Satan as a deity, or who at least is strongly inclined in that direction. When this website first went online in fall 2002 C.E, we theistic Satanists were still a despised minority within the public Satanist scene.[/SIZE]"

This qualifies the practice as Idolatrous Love, according to the description I posted.

In both Christianity and Satanism, there exists the personification of a principle via Egoic Projection.

 

[jasonwill2]

Her home page has in its beginning lines the following statement:



This qualifies the practice as Idolatrous Love, according to the description I posted.

In both Christianity and Satanism, there exists the personification of a principle via Egoic Projection.

That isn't from the page I linked, and she didn't even get into what Satanism meant. Therefore your argument is founded in per-conceived notions about my religion.

 

[jasonwill2]

*deleted post*

You read a couple of lines and made your decision? Your ignorance is offensive. We don't believe in YOUR or the Christian Satan of devil!! But no, you made up your mind without even looking at what I showed you.

As for my signature, if you knew what it meant you wouldn't take is so ******* literally, it's a partial quote of an idea of mine that applies to ONLY ME PERSONALLY.

Also just HOW GREAT! That you include a random bit in the quote without giving the rest:

[SIZE=+1] But we have grown rapidly and now seem to be the majority -- at least in online forums, though we still have some catching up to do in terms of real-world organization and in terms of being noticed by scholars of new religions.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]

But you are very closed minded if you won't even look at the source I gave you and then read a couple of lines elsewhere and decide to throw away my argument because you think we worship "idols".

I would ask you your definition of Idols, but I don't know why I should listen to you when you don't listen to me.

Satan is not what you think.

But if you think you might want to be open-minded about it and try again:

FAQ about theistic ("traditional") Satanism in general

Who and what is Satan? Various Satanist reinterpretations
[/SIZE]

 

[InfidelRiot]

[SIZE=+1]But you are very closed minded if you won't even look at the source I gave you http://theisticsatanism.com/CoAz/belief/interpret.html
[/SIZE]

Big surprise there.

 

[jasonwill2]

Big surprise there.

How was I supposed to know lol. Never talked to GodnotGod before.

 

[godnotgod]

edit: about what you said about love via the ego, you seem to be confusing LaVeyan Satanism (a form of Atheistic Satanism formed in 1966) with Theistic Satanism, the latter being very diverse and eclectic and containing many traditions.

No! What I said about Apparent Love via Ego Projection comes to us from psychology, formally termed: 'The Five Egotistical States', one of which is Idolatrous Love, and which is the one which applies to the worship of Satan. There is virtually zero difference between how the mechanism applies to Jesus or Satan, or any idol for that matter. The principle is identical.

Once again, your source clearly indicates Satanic worship as one of its principles of operation.

 

[godnotgod]

You read a couple of lines and made your decision? Your ignorance is offensive. We don't believe in YOUR or the Christian Satan of devil!! But no, you made up your mind without even looking at what I showed you.

As for my signature, if you knew what it meant you wouldn't take is so ******* literally, it's a partial quote of an idea of mine that applies to ONLY ME PERSONALLY.

Your signature, personal or not, says it all: hogwash and poppycock!

Also just HOW GREAT! That you include a random bit in the quote without giving the rest:

...which does'nt change a single thing about the nature of the religion, which she herself clearly states is worship of Satan. How much clearer can this be to you? Are you blind?

[SIZE=+1]

[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]But you are very closed minded if you won't even look at the source I gave you and then read a couple of lines elsewhere and decide to throw away my argument because you think we worship "idols".

I would ask you your definition of Idols, but I don't know why I should listen to you when you don't listen to me.

Satan is not what you think.

But if you think you might want to be open-minded about it and try again:

FAQ about theistic ("traditional") Satanism in general

Who and what is Satan? Various Satanist reinterpretations
[/SIZE]

Excuse me, but it is not a question of open-mindedness; it is a question of what the author of the website is claiming, which is IDOL WORSHIP, and upon which I base my response. That is HER intro to the subject matter of the entire site; the rest follows under that banner.

There are those in Germany who worshiped Hitler as the savior of their country, and who used the same argument you do to justify their support of him.

 

[jasonwill2]

No! What I said about Apparent Love via Ego Projection comes to us from psychology, formally termed: 'The Five Egotistical States', one of which is Idolatrous Love, and which is the one which applies to the worship of Satan. There is virtually zero difference between how the mechanism applies to Jesus or Satan, or any idol for that matter. The principle is identical.

Once again, your source clearly indicates Satanic worship as one of its principles of operation.

Who said I grovel at Satan??? Satan is not an idol, I have no image of him to have!

You seem to think that Satanism is all about Satan worship, but it's not, it's not even nessisary to be a Satanist :no: You took two sentences out of context. She meant them as to revere or respect Satan, who makes Satanists his peers.

Is my gratitude for what God (of Whom Satan is one of many titles) did for me, how he has literally come to me or answered me physically mean that my appreciation is idol worship? No! An idol will never come to you, but a god will.

Satanism is about lifting up and developing the Satanist, "Kepher" in a word. Satan is a great tester and prosecutor, the word "Satan" actually means "accuser" or "opposition" after all! He is that god which lays out challenges before us so that we can learn and grow from them.