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The Debate of God.
- Thread starter Daviso452
- Start date
Heathen Hammer
Nope, you're still wrong
Overruled! Spend a night in the stocks.
Prophet
breaking the statutes of my local municipality
Again I apologize for my rash words earlier. Your understanding of my position appears to be solid.
godnotgod
Thou art That
Well, OK, but...wait! What's this? Seems that the Infallible High Inquisitor has overlooked (NO!) Post #1218, in which GNG is true to his word! Default Ordinance #1906 has it that High Inquisitors must suffer the consequences of their own mistaken determinations.
Enjoy your stay at the stockades, HH.:slap:
Heathen Hammer
Nope, you're still wrong
You quoted an illegal source: some nutty Christian-cum-Buddhist. On what knowledge is. lol!Well, OK, but...wait! What's this? Seems that the Infallible High Inquisitor has overlooked (NO!) Post #1218, in which GNG is true to his word! Default Ordinance #1906 has it that High Inquisitors must suffer the consequences of their own mistaken determinations.
Enjoy your stay at the stockades, HH.:slap:
Sentence upgraded to pitch-capping. report to your incarceration enter no later than midnight tomorrow, and please, shave your head.
Also please note: the king has already approved all my fornications. Past and future.
Watts was wrong if he said this; you cannot attach any attributes to anything without some fact. Otherwise your attachment is unreliable at best, false at worst. Also, he seems to be attempting to redefine what 'metaphysics' means. Oh no, you'd never allow that.
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godnotgod
Thou art That
I appreciate your input and understand how frustrating it can be at times to try to get others to see what it is you are trying to get across.
Please stay and share more of your insights.
godnotgod
Thou art That
I have inside information that the King is just jivin' you, and that he is eager to see you the look on your face when he betrays you.
Ooooh! Pitch-capping! My favorite!
Heathen Hammer
Nope, you're still wrong
Statement remains:
please to describe how you would ever understand something that did not have at least one fact attached?
Pick a single thing, about which you believe you personally possess this non-thinking understanding, and describe what it is you know of it and how you know what you know about it, omitting all possible factual statements.
please to describe how you would ever understand something that did not have at least one fact attached?
Pick a single thing, about which you believe you personally possess this non-thinking understanding, and describe what it is you know of it and how you know what you know about it, omitting all possible factual statements.
Prophet
breaking the statutes of my local municipality
I am.
godnotgod
Thou art That
Reality supports itself. Go. See for yourself, but leave your baggage behind.
"A million people watched, but no one saw a thing!"
A Cup of Tea
Nan-in, a Japanese master during the Meiji era (1868-1912), received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen.
Nan-in served tea. He poured his visitor's cup full, and then kept on pouring.
The professor watched the overflow until he no longer could restrain himself. "It is overfull. No more will go in!"
"Like this cup," Nan-in said, "you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?")(
Heathen Hammer
Nope, you're still wrong
But that's a factual statement.
Prophet
breaking the statutes of my local municipality
Which is your opinion.
Heathen Hammer
Nope, you're still wrong
So it's not a factual statement?
I guess you don't realize, in order for you to make it, it has to be true.. which would render it a fact. That was possibly the worst example you could have tried, in this case.
Also: Mere Opinion fallacy.
I guess you don't realize, in order for you to make it, it has to be true.. which would render it a fact. That was possibly the worst example you could have tried, in this case.
Also: Mere Opinion fallacy.
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Prophet
breaking the statutes of my local municipality
I am the person who said it in the first place with my own intended meaning. You then attached your own meaning to it and made it into a factual statement.
Thank you for the quick reminder of why I thought debating you was a waste of time, fallacy master.
Heathen Hammer
Nope, you're still wrong
Well, it's a waste of your time because victory eludes you, perhaps ;PI am the person who said it in the first place with my own intended meaning. You then attached your own meaning to it and made it into a factual statement.
Thank you for the quick reminder of why I thought debating you was a waste of time, fallacy master.
What was your intended meaning. Your continual vagueness suggests your meaning coincides with what Im saying, and you're simply dodging to avoid admitting to it.
State your meaning then to clear up the misconception of how you are aware of your own existence, sans all facts.
[and thank you for the title. I am a fallacy master of a sort, having coined one which is now enshrined forever in the urban dictionary; see sig]
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Prophet
breaking the statutes of my local municipality
When I say "I AM" I am stating Truth. Not fact. I'm not talking about my heart which will someday cease to beat or my brain which one day will no longer serve as the host for my consciousness. All facts fade away. Truth endures forever and so does I AM. I always have been. I will always be.
It's not really something I expect you to believe or understand and I honestly don't usually like to give the zen speak answers to things, but you asked a zen speak kind of question.
It's not really something I expect you to believe or understand and I honestly don't usually like to give the zen speak answers to things, but you asked a zen speak kind of question.
Heathen Hammer
Nope, you're still wrong
How is Truth not fact? lol
I 'don't understand it' because it's a nonsensical statement, as if the two are somehow separate.
It cannot be Truth if it's not factual..
I 'don't understand it' because it's a nonsensical statement, as if the two are somehow separate.
It cannot be Truth if it's not factual..
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godnotgod
Thou art That
How can you 'attach' an attribute to something via fact, since an attribute is already part of it? You're still dealing with concepts.
That I called it 'metaphysic' was not a mistake. Watts makes the distinction between metaphysic, and metaphysics, as follows:
METAPHYSIC: The indefinable basis of knowledge. Metaphysical knowledge or "realization" is an intense clarity of attention to that indefinable and immediate "point" of knowledge which is always "now", and from which all other knowledge is elaborated by reflective thought. A consciousness
of "life" in which the mind is not trying to grasp or define what it knows.
METAPHYSICS: (Greek and Western). Highly abstract thought, dealing with such concepts as being, nature, substance, essence, matter, and form, and treating them as if they were facts on a higher level of objective existence than sensually perceptible things.
godnotgod
Thou art That
You mean it can't be true if its not factual.
Facts are provable via logic and/or experiment.
Truth is not necessarily provable by such means.
In the example of "I Am", besides the idea that one goes on forever, it also means that one lives always in this eternal Present Moment, which is another way of putting it. It means one's true nature is not a product of history and is not held in memory, as the self subject to fact is. "I Am" is beyond mere fact. It is an eternal truth that is verifiable via direct experience. It does not mean merely that "I exist". As you may recall, in context, Jesus said:
"Before Abraham WAS, I AM", so he is comparing his nature which emerges out of the Present, to that of Abraham, who is a historical figure, subject to birth and death. "I Am" is unborn, and so is deathless.
"Facts are technically accurate statements made by the mouth or penned by the hand.
Truth is a larger statement, a holistic statement. Truth is not just factually accurate, but also utterly honest. Truth is the whole statement of one’s total being: a unified expression of word, deed, motive, and emotion—all of which are True.
When a clear distinction is made between facts and Truth, we realize that words can be factual yet untrue at the same time; a person's words may be technically correct but when inward intent is not true . . . then only fact-speaking can occur — as opposed to Truth-telling. The distinguishing element is this: When the motive behind the message is false, then superficially accurate words are false from their foundations — this is the very meaning of empty rhetoric: words expressed without wholeness of heart."
http://www.calldrmatt.com/Facts&Truth.htm
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Heathen Hammer
Nope, you're still wrong
the attachment is your awareness of it, that's how. That is the attachment, unless you're trying more semantic athletics to make what is true and rational, not be.
Well, i copy/pasted the word exactly as you typed it, caps and all, into Wiki, and that's what came up. 'Metaphysic', singular, led to the description, so, I guess you're redefining the term. or Watt is. Even though he's mentioned on the page I came to.
But in any case I maintain that you cannot have 'higher thought' about anything unless you consider facts about that thing. but by all means keep denying it with no real explanation.
Metaphysics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Search and see for yourself.