The decline of traditional religion in the West

[Dawnofhope]

Some countries in the West including New Zealand where I live and the USA where many people on this forum live, are witnessing an unprecedented decline in religion. The process of declining numbers are more pronounced in New Zealand. Only a third of our population identify as Christian whereas over 100 years ago it was more than 90 percent. The decline is accelerating here, not slowing down. Our most recent census in 2018 recorded 37% Christian whereas only 5 years previously it was 48%.

Religion in New Zealand - Wikipedia

On the other hand the numbers of those who identified as having no religion have risen dramatically. 49% identify as having no religion in 2018 compared to 42% in 2013.

What are the forces at play for such a seismic shift? Is it because religion has fallen into disrepute? Will the USA follow other Western countries like New Zealand with an unprecedented exodus from religion?

 

[danieldemol]

Is it because religion has fallen into disrepute? Will the USA follow other Western countries like New Zealand with an unprecedented exodus from religion?

I think it is because religion in the traditional western sense of the word simply isn't true.
As to whether USA will follow NZ i suppose I can only hope it does because personally I think truth matters.

In my opinion.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I think it is because religion in the traditional western sense of the word simply isn't true.
As to whether USA will follow NZ i suppose I can only hope it does because personally I think truth matters.

In my opinion.

So what is true, and why does it matter?

 

[SomeRandom]

Some countries in the West including New Zealand where I live and the USA where many people on this forum live, are witnessing an unprecedented decline in religion. The process of declining numbers are more pronounced in New Zealand. Only a third of our population identify as Christian whereas over 100 years ago it was more than 90 percent. The decline is accelerating here, not slowing down. Our most recent census in 2018 recorded 37% Christian whereas only 5 years previously it was 48%.

Religion in New Zealand - Wikipedia

On the other hand the numbers of those who identified as having no religion have risen dramatically. 49% identify as having no religion in 2018 compared to 42% in 2013.

What are the forces at play for such a seismic shift? Is it because religion has fallen into disrepute? Will the USA follow other Western countries like New Zealand with an unprecedented exodus from religion?

I think it’s largely an embrace of secularism and perhaps looking sideways at the US brand of Evangelicals. I mean no offence but they’re rather umm “interesting” let’s say lol


Unrelated but you’re a Kiwi? We’re neighbours!!
I have family over there!!!
Haven’t visited in ages unfortunately. Itching to go back

 

[Dawnofhope]

I think it is because religion in the traditional western sense of the word simply isn't true.
As to whether USA will follow NZ i suppose I can only hope it does because personally I think truth matters.

In my opinion.

I agree that truth matters, but I believe religion has a great deal of truth. For example Jesus was a real person who lived among men and through the example of his life and the power of his teaching, positively influenced the lives of countless people though many generations until this time. However I see religion in the USA at the fore of morally questionable and divisive political movements. Insistence on biblical literalism appears really harmful.

 

[danieldemol]

So what is true, and why does it matter?

Truth is what aligns to reality, and it matters because understanding reality is what allows us to progress.

You'll never learn to fly by believing angels will carry you but knowledge of aeronautics etc has carried humanity through the sky.

I can't give you all the answers, but I can speak in favour of science and reason which has given humans reliable answers where such answers are practically achievable.

In my opinion.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Truth is what aligns to reality, and it matters because understanding reality is what allows us to progress.

You'll never learn to fly by believing angels will carry you but knowledge of aeronautics etc has carried humanity through the sky.

I can't give you all the answers, but I can speak in favour of science and reason which has given humans reliable answers where such answers are practically achievable.

In my opinion.

So to you, truth is understanding the workings of the material world? There is no higher, or deeper truth than that?

 

[Dawnofhope]

I think it’s largely an embrace of secularism and perhaps looking sideways at the US brand of Evangelicals. I mean no offence but they’re rather umm “interesting” let’s say lol


Unrelated but you’re a Kiwi? We’re neighbours!!
I have family over there!!!
Haven’t visited in ages unfortunately. Itching to go back

I'm certainly am a kiwi and like you have family and friends in Aussie. I was in Queensland a few years back. Our countries are very similar and I feel a great deal of affection for my Australian cousins.

Evangelical Christianity contributes to a lot of negative rap for Christianity as a whole.

 

[ajay0]

This can be due to the influence of philosophies of recent times like nihilism, atheism, materialism which people use as an excuse for hedonism and individualism to the point of anarchy.

Religious philosophies are not able to stand the scrutiny and intellection of the modern logical mind.

 

[danieldemol]

I agree that truth matters, but I believe religion has a great deal of truth.

I'm sure we can agree that there is a difference between having a great deal of truth and some errors and having 100%truth, and that is where religion has so much difficulty learning, because it claims to have 100% truth and thus can't be seen to learn from its errors, as that would imply a human learning process which would undermine it's traditional claim to being infallibly divine in origin.

In my opinion.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I think it is because religion in the traditional western sense of the word simply isn't true.
As to whether USA will follow NZ i suppose I can only hope it does because personally I think truth matters.

In my opinion.

I think love matters more and truth follows behind it, but yes truth matters very much.

 

[stvdv]

What are the forces at play for such a seismic shift?

The Truth will set you free
No need of religion anymore

 

[SomeRandom]

I'm certainly am a kiwi and like you have family and friends in Aussie. I was in Queensland a few years back. Our countries are very similar and I feel a great deal of affection for my Australian cousins.

Agreed!
I’m a Queenslander born and bred.
Next time you’re in the area, come on down to mine.
You’ll get some good food at the very least (I’m half Indian. Trust me, no one leaves this house with an empty stomach. )

Evangelical Christianity contributes to a lot of negative rap for Christianity as a whole.

I have to agree.
Most of my family are actually Christians themselves. (Church of God, they call their group.) Very nice humble people. Very welcoming and imo a great example of Jesus’ teachings.
I grew up in a blended Hindu/Christian community myself, half in the West and half in the Fijian Indian community. So I’m quite at home in church, at a BBQ and even a Temple.
I have no real beef with religion, but some of the folks? Yeah, they can be quite menacing.
Kind of sad to see, to tell the truth.
They turn people away from religions and often the community it can afford to folks. Regardless of one’s beliefs

 

[danieldemol]

So to you, truth is understanding the workings of the material world? There is no higher, or deeper truth than that?

I used the term reality in preference to "material world", there may be higher truth, but it is not demonstrable.

In my opinion.

 

[ChristineM]

Some countries in the West including New Zealand where I live and the USA where many people on this forum live, are witnessing an unprecedented decline in religion. The process of declining numbers are more pronounced in New Zealand. Only a third of our population identify as Christian whereas over 100 years ago it was more than 90 percent. The decline is accelerating here, not slowing down. Our most recent census in 2018 recorded 37% Christian whereas only 5 years previously it was 48%.

Religion in New Zealand - Wikipedia

On the other hand the numbers of those who identified as having no religion have risen dramatically. 49% identify as having no religion in 2018 compared to 42% in 2013.

What are the forces at play for such a seismic shift? Is it because religion has fallen into disrepute? Will the USA follow other Western countries like New Zealand with an unprecedented exodus from religion?

I believe the reason for the declining religious numbers is better education which nurtures critical thinking and the rise of the internet.

The recent religious scandals and terrorism have both helped in the downfall of religion.

 

[Aštra’el]

And people might wonder why they are so lacking in culture, why they struggle with their sense of identity, and are so desperate to find meaning in their lives.

Every religion I have ever learned from, has only made me stronger. I can not always say the same for other people, but honestly it is not my problem. Your life is on you. I would rather not deny myself the strength, power, wisdom and beauty, the inspiration and motivation, the connections, the relationships, the opportunities, and the experiences, that can be found throughout the many great religions.

Religions have helped me solidify my own Weltanschauung, create and navigate my own spiritual-religious system, understand and admit the sides of human nature that I as an individual exalt above the rest, discover people and culture that truly resonates with me… and be genuine and honest with myself over who I am, who I am becoming and who I Will to be. Without the slightest sense of shame, doubt or regret… I can focus on my own intellectual, physical and spiritual development, and never be lacking for the fuel inside helping me fulfill my own dreams and goals and ambitions. Those who can not see the value in religion, or find anything empowering about it, well, it is their own tragic loss.

Religions rise and fall. They might even rise again. But nothing lasts forever. I can not prevent the sun from setting over the world around me… but I can ignite my own sun within.

 

[SomeRandom]

And people might wonder why they are so lacking in culture, why they struggle with their sense of identity, and are so desperate to find meaning in their lives.

Every religion I have ever learned from, has only made me stronger. I can not always say the same for other people, but honestly it is not my problem. Your life is on you. I would rather not deny myself the strength, power, wisdom and beauty, the inspiration and motivation, the connections, the relationships, the opportunities, and the experiences, that can be found throughout the many great religions.

Religions have helped me solidify my own Weltanschauung, create and navigate my own spiritual-religious system, understand and admit the sides of human nature that I as an individual exalt above the rest, discover people and culture that truly resonates with me… and be genuine and honest with myself over who I am, who I am becoming and who I Will to be. Without the slightest sense of shame, doubt or regret… I can focus on my own intellectual, physical and spiritual development, and never be lacking for the fuel inside helping me fulfill my own dreams and goals and ambitions. Those who can not see the value in religion, or find anything empowering about it, well, it is their own tragic loss.

Religions rise and fall. They might even rise again. But nothing lasts forever. I can not prevent the sun from setting over the world around me… but I can ignite my own sun within.

Speaking as someone who’s religion is literally directly tied with my cultural heritage, I have to agree that there a great many valuable lessons a religion can teach someone. Even if it’s just looking at life from a different point of view.
Granted I do not seek to excuse the distasteful aspects, how it can offer a shield to justify prejudice and can be used to hurt others, just for example. There is good and bad to be found in religion. Just like most things in life.
But I think religious exchange can be quite beneficial and offer a learning tool to folks. Even if it’s just learning about a different culture.
Which can be fun

 

[danieldemol]

And people might wonder why they are so lacking in culture, why they struggle with their sense of identity, and are so desperate to find meaning in their lives.

Speaking for myself I'm none of the above.

Well ok, I may be a little uncultured, but I see religious indoctrination as unlikely to be the cure for that.

In my opinion.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Agreed!
I’m a Queenslander born and bred.
Next time you’re in the area, come on down to mine.
You’ll get some good food at the very least (I’m half Indian. Trust me, no one leaves this house with an empty stomach. )


I have to agree.
Most of my family are actually Christians themselves. (Church of God, they call their group.) Very nice humble people. Very welcoming and imo a great example of Jesus’ teachings.
I grew up in a blended Hindu/Christian community myself, half in the West and half in the Fijian Indian community. So I’m quite at home in church, at a BBQ and even a Temple.
I have no real beef with religion, but some of the folks? Yeah, they can be quite menacing.
Kind of sad to see, to tell the truth.
They turn people away from religions and often the community it can afford to folks. Regardless of one’s beliefs

FFIW I see Hinduism as a religion with Divine origins. Hinduism and Buddhism both emerged quite separate and independent of Christianity and Islam. When these religions came together it was through colonization in India with some very negative experiences for Hindus.

I have spent several months in Labasa, Fiji with a predominantly Indian population. Many of the residents were hospitable. In Indian culture, hospitality was considered next to Godliness.

The thinking that one religion is somehow superior to the other, probably contributes to the decline of religion. These days we expect peoples of all faiths and ideologies cooperating and working together without one group undermining the other.

 

[Vinayaka]

I think there are a lot of factors going on.
1) Education has improved, and more stances on it are offered, with teaching being more problem solving or discussion models, than lecturing. In short, it's made us better thinkers.
2) Religion is boring to some degree. TV, video games, the great outdoors, have all been less boring options.
3) Gender roles have changed, less women are at home teaching religion by osmosis.
4) Other information is everywhere.
5) The world is becoming 'smaller'. If curiosity is piqued about something, it's a moment away.
6) Science has demonstrated that some of the teaching is just false (recent creation myth, homosexuality) and this leads to more questioning. If they got that wrong, what else did they get wrong?"

There are probably many more factors. Personally, I don't see it as a good thing or a bad thing.