The decline of traditional religion in the West

[RestlessSoul]

Why would a rational person exchange one set of unfalsifiable beliefs and truth statements for another?

Presumably because they are more comfortable with one set of beliefs than another.

 

[Sand Dancer]

True. But also you should note, atheism as a whole has been seeing a decline. In the early 20th century atheism grew exponentially. Just swept across. But since the 70's it has slowed down like a cart on a hill. PEW predicts Atheism will keep declining for a long time.

Nevertheless, do you have a theory why?

People are becoming spiritual but not religious. I don't think that is a bad thing.

 

[syo]

Why would a rational person exchange one set of unfalsifiable beliefs and truth statements for another?

Less lions.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

research shows otherwise.

Please provide the research that says otherwise.

 

[sun rise]

What are the forces at play for such a seismic shift? Is it because religion has fallen into disrepute?

Every structure is born,matures and ultimately dies. What was considered religious expression has changed over the ages in various societies. This is an era when all sorts of structures are being shaken and many dissolved.

Will the USA follow other Western countries like New Zealand with an unprecedented exodus from religion?

The trend lines say yes

People are becoming spiritual but not religious. I don't think that is a bad thing.

This is a key post. Surveys are incomplete unless they include questions that delve into this area such as "do you believe life has a purpose?", "do you believe in a God or gods"? "do you believe something survives death?" and so forth. This is a Pew survey from 2017 showing trend lines: More Americans now say they’re spiritual but not religious

 

[ppp]

Let me see.

View attachment 65853

Adequate.

I see you put some deceptive spins on the data.

Thanks for the almost link.

 

[ppp]

Less lions.

Fewer.

 

[sun rise]

Religious Landscape Study has some very interesting results. Many of the stats are as one would expect. These two stood out for me because a feeling of spiritual peace and wonder about the universe are to me in the background if not foreground of SBNR folk.

 

[firedragon]

Most people in Europe say they are Christian, but that means something different than it does in the US. Christian means just being a good person, not worshiping in church, praying or Bible reading. Europeans tend to go to church to get married or buried.

You mean there are flaws in research right? And that may affect statistics? That's the case with any induction.

For example, many atheists in the united states are claiming to be atheists which is an identity statement, but about 20% statistically believe in a higher power which is by definition conflicting.

 

[JustGeorge]

All things run in cycles. Now is the time for the lessening of Christianity, but that doesn't mean religion is dying.

There are new religious paths that replace the old. Baha'i would be one of them, along with the rising of Old Traditions(NeoPagansism such as Asatrau, Druidry, or Hellinism). Buddhism is catching on in the West, and while its not exactly the same as presented in the East, it forms a valid spiritual tradition for many.

I think we're also rethinking what 'God' means. Its becoming less common to find people that think he's a humanoid sitting 'beyond' somewhere, zapping things into creation and taking them out again, but many find him/her/it in the cycles of nature, or the elements that make up reality. Perhaps they believe God dwells within, and we provide our own 'salvation'. Or perhaps they think its irrelevant, and they carry on their spirituality without a God concept(one does not need a God figure to be religious).


(Shiva at CERN)

With the spread of information, new paths become available as well. The internet is a boon for reconstructionists. I myself would have had more difficulty into my journey into Hinduism without the internet. I suspect over time, new religious movements may start their sparks on the internet as well, as people from across the globe with similar(but minority) view points can reach out to each other.

I think religion is doing fine.

 

[firedragon]

People are becoming spiritual but not religious. I don't think that is a bad thing.

I don't know about "becoming". That could be, but please provide some research to show that people are increasingly spiritual.You maybe right.

But the research is not statistics about spiritual. It names the religions. So this is factually irrelevant.

 

[Sand Dancer]

You mean there are flaws in research right? And that may affect statistics? That's the case with any induction.

For example, many atheists in the united states are claiming to be atheists which is an identity statement, but about 20% statistically believe in a higher power which is by definition conflicting.

Yes. It's multifaceted.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Some countries in the West including New Zealand where I live and the USA where many people on this forum live, are witnessing an unprecedented decline in religion. The process of declining numbers are more pronounced in New Zealand. Only a third of our population identify as Christian whereas over 100 years ago it was more than 90 percent. The decline is accelerating here, not slowing down. Our most recent census in 2018 recorded 37% Christian whereas only 5 years previously it was 48%.

Religion in New Zealand - Wikipedia

On the other hand the numbers of those who identified as having no religion have risen dramatically. 49% identify as having no religion in 2018 compared to 42% in 2013.

What are the forces at play for such a seismic shift? Is it because religion has fallen into disrepute? Will the USA follow other Western countries like New Zealand with an unprecedented exodus from religion?

A few thoughts as to why religions might decline. Firstly, as to religions still causing friction and divisions within societies and between nations, and where little resolution seems likely in the near future or ever. Secondly, as to slowing progress when certain issues within societies often are simply decided by the doctrine of some particular faith, and which might not be compatible with what many instinctively feel. Thirdly, perhaps some still insisting on the separation of humans and other life (human uniqueness), despite the evidence (always increasing too) as to us sharing so much with all other life, and especially the more intelligent and/or social species. Fourthly, the many who seemingly having to distance themselves from much of science because it doesn't tend to support whatever doctrine in which they happen to believe.

The increases predicted, especially in the more Muslim countries, seems to assume that the trends seen in Europe and some of the wealthier countries will not happen. But perhaps they will, unless Islam is uniquely different from all other religions, which is doubtful, given it seems to suffer from the same problems - division and conflict being just as prevalent as in most other religions, and having much the same basis as many other religions. If the tendency is for the more educated and wealthier nations to become less religious, then why would we not see the same effects in some of the Muslim countries - unless authoritarianism prevails of course.

 

[firedragon]

Adequate.

I see you put some deceptive spins on the data.

Thanks for the almost link.

thanks for cheap ad hominem. Maybe you are another person who thinks others are just like you by default. So I can't help with that.

I don't have links. I gave you the direct statistics. Do some research of your own. If you want more information just ask rather than making cheap statements showing your character.

Cheers.

 

[firedragon]

Yes. It's multifaceted.

Any research?

 

[firedragon]

Please provide the research that says otherwise.

#37

 

[Sand Dancer]

Any research?

I don't know about "becoming". That could be, but please provide some research to show that people are increasingly spiritual.You maybe right.

But the research is not statistics about spiritual. It names the religions. So this is factually irrelevant.

More Americans now say they’re spiritual but not religious

 

[firedragon]

More Americans now say they’re spiritual but not religious

Okay. I understand what you say now. What you mean is that there are "More people saying they are spiritual not religious", not that "there are more spiritual people than religious increasingly".

Spiritual not religious is a statistic. It's a grouping or a finding.

There is no finding that "spiritual" as a statistic is increasing. "Spiritual not religious" is a different statistic.

Do you understand?

 

[George-ananda]

As traditional religions decline in importance what they are being replaced with is a vague category of 'spiritual but not religious'. I think the old debate of last century of Christianity vs. Atheism is heading for 'neither of the above'.

In that article the 'No Religion' category only tells us what they don't believe and not what they do believe.

 

[Vinayaka]

I read that if you give someone something fun to do on Sunday mornings, they will choose that over church.

Yup. That's true some of the time. My atheist father liked o take us fishing. He often did follow the custom of taking the day off work (farmer, but never in harvest season) to take us fishing. Some of the kids at school envied us for that.