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The Deep

sandy whitelinger

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
A very simple question from Genesis 1:1-2

"[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep." KJV

When was the "deep" created?
 
sandy whitelinger

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
Runewolf1973 said:
The "deep" was the potential for there to be something else, like potential energy. But the way I see it, all energy has "consciousness" or the ability to move and change form, act and react. It was the combination of there being "potential" and "consciousness" out of which all other energy and matter was formed. But the "potential" energy and that "consciousness" has always existed. It just changed form. There was no "creator" god, for energy can neither be "created" nor destroyed, it only changes form.
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You do realize this is a Biblical debate. Can you back that position up with any scripture?
 
C

curious-er

Member
Sandy, sometimes it is helpful to check several Bible versions. For example :
The Holman Christian Standard Bible The King James Version (Authorized) "Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness covered the surface of the watery depths, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. "

The Good News Translation ""the earth was formless and desolate. The raging ocean that covered everything was engulfed in total darkness, and the Spirit of God was moving over the water. "
New Century Version GOD'S WORD "The earth was empty and had no form. Darkness covered the ocean, and God's Spirit was moving over the water. "

God's Word Translation "The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep water. The Spirit of God was hovering over the water. "

New International Reader's Version "The earth didn't have any shape. And it was empty. Darkness was over the surface of the ocean. At that time, the ocean covered the earth. The Spirit of God was hovering over the waters."

The Hebrew word being translated is teh-home'. It is also found in the KJV @
Gen. 7:11 "In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Gen 8:7 "The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;"

So from the above, I would suggest that the deep spoken of is either the "waters above" atmosphere or the "waters below" atmosphere Gen.1:6 and therefore was created as part of the earth.
 
S

S-word

Well-Known Member
[quote=curious-er;1486325]Sandy, sometimes it is helpful to check several Bible versions. For example :
"The earth was empty and had no form. Darkness covered the ocean, and God's Spirit was moving over the water. "

God's Word Translation "The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep water. The Spirit of God was hovering over the water. "

New International Reader's Version "The earth didn't have any shape. And it was empty. Darkness was over the surface of the ocean. At that time, the ocean covered the earth. The Spirit of God was hovering over the waters."



So from the above, I would suggest that the deep spoken of is either the "waters above" atmosphere or the "waters below" atmosphere Gen.1:6 and therefore was created as part of the earth.
[/quote]

In an eternal oscillating universe, the universe begins with a ‘Big Bang’ and the infinitely dense and hot, infinitesimally small primordial atom within the original Black Hole is blasted out to become the universal body that we see today.

A period of universal activity which lasts for billions and billions of years and will one day be condensed back into the ‘Great Abyss’ = ‘Black Hole’ = ‘Deep,’ for a period of billions and billions of years of universal inactivity, which to our finite minds seems as an eternity.

Genesis 1: 2, “The earth ‘WAS’ without form and void,” should be correctly translated, “The earth ‘became’ without form (Having no shape) and void (Having no mass).

The Hebrew word ‘Havah’ which has been translated ‘Was,’ means “To become, occur, come to pass, Be” (Vines Complete Expository Dictionary of Old Testament Words 1985, “To Be.”)

“The Deep,” is the original Black Hole which is still expanding outward, and the activating force of creation was working upon the forming elements gathering the Quantum of liquid like electromagnetic energy in the trillions of degrees, that was spewed out with the initial Big Bang.

The active force of God (Gravity) working upon the expanding cloud of photon or wave particles, which have no mass and no electric charge and yet carry angular and linear momentum and are generally regarded as discrete stable elementary particles (Water) gathering the photons into sub-atomic particles, which, were gathered into atoms, which were gathered into Molecules which were gathered in the creation of all that exists, which will be gathered back into the great Abyss from which it originated, which is the beginning; not some new beginning, but THE Beginning. For God calls all creation back to himself before creating a new heavens and a new earth.

I'll be away for two days, God willing, I'll see you all when I return.
 
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sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
The "deep" refers to the chaos that existed before God created and brought order.
 
sandy whitelinger

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
S-word said:
In an eternal oscillating universe, the universe begins with a ‘Big Bang’ and the infinitely dense and hot, infinitesimally small primordial atom within the original Black Hole is blasted out to become the universal body that we see today.

A period of universal activity which lasts for billions and billions of years and will one day be condensed back into the ‘Great Abyss’ = ‘Black Hole’ = ‘Deep,’ for a period of billions and billions of years of universal inactivity, which to our finite minds seems as an eternity.

“The Deep,” is the original Black Hole which is still expanding outward, and the activating force of creation was working upon the forming elements gathering the Quantum of liquid like electromagnetic energy in the trillions of degrees, that was spewed out with the initial Big Bang.
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These are interesting biblical concepts
S-word said:
Genesis 1: 2, “The earth ‘WAS’ without form and void,” should be correctly translated, “The earth ‘became’ without form (Having no shape) and void (Having no mass).
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S-word said:
The Hebrew word ‘Havah’ which has been translated ‘Was,’ means “To become, occur, come to pass, Be” (Vines Complete Expository Dictionary of Old Testament Words 1985, “To Be.”)
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Became without form and void suggests that it had form and substance before. This type of translation helped lead to the "Gap Theory."

Gap creationism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Heneni

Heneni

Miss Independent
The deep is the womb of creation.

God formed the earth in the womb of creation as he forms us in the deep darkness of our mothers womb.

The bible says that the earth was made out of water. We are also in the water of our mothers womb while we are being formed.

Heneni
 
Free4all

Free4all

It's all about the blood
I don't know, but it's the thick layer of ice that John talks about and is due north 100,000,000,??? light years. If there is an answer in the bible it will probably be found in Job.
 
S

S-word

Well-Known Member
Quote...sojourner...The "deep" refers to the chaos that existed before God created and brought order.

Can you back that up?
sojourner said:
Yeah. Valid Biblical scholarship.
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OK, you've made the statement, now give the Biblical evidence (Repeat) Biblical evidence to substantiate it.
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
S-word said:
Quote...sojourner...The "deep" refers to the chaos that existed before God created and brought order.

Can you back that up?



OK, you've made the statement, now give the Biblical evidence (Repeat) Biblical evidence to substantiate it.
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I didn't say "Biblical evidence," I said, "Biblical scholarship," (repeat) scholarship. But here goes:

The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, Vol. 1, Abingdon, 1962; pg. 813.
The Interpreter's Bible, Vol. 1, Abingdom, 1952; pg. 467.

Both sources exegete the term "deep" (tehom, in Heb) and equate it to a philological equivalent of Tiamat, the chaos monster in the Babylonian creation myth.

I could go on, but...why?
 
sandy whitelinger

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
Heneni said:
The deep is the womb of creation.

God formed the earth in the womb of creation as he forms us in the deep darkness of our mothers womb.

The bible says that the earth was made out of water. We are also in the water of our mothers womb while we are being formed.

Heneni
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That's a strange interpretation. Can you back this up with any Scripture?
 
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