the definition of cuckod between the Westerns and Muslims

[Godobeyer]

That's sick.

Anywho, any response to my above post?

edited
because i can not find the way to explain my idea from Arabic to english .
I know the idea , because i heard in an Islamic lesson in the TV .
but i will try
for exemple , sometimes the wife feel that she desrver man better than her husband , or he becomes sick , or poor , if she obey him by patient God will reward her by the Heaven .

but if he treat her badly or cheat her .....etc it's up to her to forgive him or ask the divorce .

 

[Godobeyer]

Oh, please. It's becoming harder and harder to take anything you say seriously.

i just make the situation clear , about what i mean "even he did not deserve"

 

[beenie]

because i can find the way to explain my idea from Arabic to english .
I know the idea , because i heard in an Islamic lesson in the TV .
but i will try
for exemple , sometimes the wife feel that she desrver man better than her husband , or he becomes sick , or poor , if she obey him by patient God will reward her by the Heaven .

but if he treat her badly or cheat her .....etc it's up to her to forgive him or ask the divorce .

What would happen if the WOMAN became ill? Who would take care of her?

 

[Draka]

because i can find the way to explain my idea from Arabic to english .
I know the idea , because i heard in an Islamic lesson in the TV .
but i will try
for exemple , sometimes the wife feel that she desrver man better than her husband , or he becomes sick , or poor , if she obey him by patient God will reward her by the Heaven .

but if he treat her badly or cheat her .....etc it's up to her to forgive him or ask the divorce .

That has nothing to do with what I asked at all.

You have presented the idea that it is the husband's DUTY to provide for his wife. As it is her duty to obey him. If he does not provide for his wife, if she is the main provider in the relationship or family, then has he failed in his duty as a Muslim man? How is such a man looked upon? If his wife becomes the main or sole breadwinner and he takes on household duties he would normally expect her to do, is he any less of a "man"?

How is a man viewed that is NOT providing for his wife financially?

 

[Enlighten]

for exemple , sometimes the wife feel that she desrver man better than her husband , or he becomes sick , or poor , if she obey him by patient God will reward her by the Heaven .

but if he treat her badly or cheat her .....etc it's up to her to forgive him or ask the divorce .

ok so switch the scenario, the husband feels he can do better, does he obey her and remain patient for his reward?
Wife becomes sick or poor, does he obey and remain patient?

 

[Godobeyer]

What would happen if the WOMAN became ill? Who would take care of her?

the second wife of course , I am just kiding sister ,

of course , he should take of her by any way .

 

[Godobeyer]

ok so switch the scenario, the husband feels he can do better, does he obey her and remain patient for his reward?
Wife becomes sick or poor, does he obey and remain patient?

of course he should care of her , and remain patient , it's his duty .
if he did not he becomes thankless

 

[Enlighten]

of course he should care of her , and remain patient , it's his duty .
if he did not he becomes thankless

Well well well Godobeyer, I never thought I would utter these words. But..... I agree on the sick/poor part, he should have the same sense of care to his wife as she does to him.

I think though IF a man/woman felt they could do better than their spouse then they are not truely in love and should probably separate/divorce.

 

[beenie]

of course he should care of her , and remain patient , it's his duty .
if he did not he becomes thankless

Well well well Godobeyer, I never thought I would utter these words. But..... I agree on the sick/poor part, he should have the same sense of care to his wife as she does to him.

I think though IF a man/woman felt they could do better than their spouse then they are not truely in love and should probably separate/divorce.

:faint: I agree too!

 

[Badran]

accuatly i just fast read it , it's my bad , that mean that you are agree with me in this submission of the wife , and agree with soft beating the insubordinate wife

Thats fine, it happens.

One little problem though, you did it again. You've completely misunderstood what i said. I do not agree with soft beating. I do not agree with submission. In other words, i do not agree with you. I do however agree with Islam's teachings regarding the matter. How? Well its because i don't get the same results you do from them when i read them.

Again, how? I explained that before of course, as well as everything i'm saying here, i interpret the verse differently (as you already recognize there are different interpretations), regarding the submission part and the beating part. I take the first part to mean that the man is responsible to provide for and protect his wife, thats it. No submission whatsoever. As far as beating goes, i'm basically fine with all the other possible interpretations (which i assume you're aware of since you indicated them somewhere), because none of them contradict other teachings and none of them is unfair in my view. Except the interpretation of beating of course, or soft beating, or any physical 'punishment'.

As far as Hadiths go, you've been asking in the multiple threads for confirmation regarding the meaning (don't remember in which specific one though). So to help you with that, yes, many of the hadiths you quoted do in fact directly say that the wife should submit to her husband. However, like i said, some of them don't, and some of them contradict with other Hadiths (regarding the beating), and some of them contradict with the idea of submission first and foremost to god. There is no such thing to me in Islam as submission except to god. The term itself is inappropriate in my view to be used in reference to anything or anybody except god.

So, in a nutshell, seeing the multiple sources, contradictions, different interpretations (and so on), i arrive at a completely different conclusion than you do. I hope you understand me now. I can't make it any more clear than this.

 

[Godobeyer]

Thats fine, it happens.

One little problem though, you did it again. You've completely misunderstood what i said. I do not agree with soft beating. I do not agree with submission. In other words, i do not agree with you. I do however agree with Islam's teachings regarding the matter. How? Well its because i don't get the same results you do from them when i read them.

Again, how? I explained that before of course, as well as everything i'm saying here, i interpret the verse differently (as you already recognize there are different interpretations), regarding the submission part and the beating part. I take the first part to mean that the man is responsible to provide for and protect his wife, thats it. No submission whatsoever. As far as beating goes, i'm basically fine with all the other possible interpretations (which i assume you're aware of since you indicated them somewhere), because none of them contradict other teachings and none of them is unfair in my view. Except the interpretation of beating of course, or soft beating, or any physical 'punishment'.

As far as Hadiths go, you've been asking in the multiple threads for confirmation regarding the meaning (don't remember in which specific one though). So to help you with that, yes, many of the hadiths you quoted do in fact directly say that the wife should submit to her husband. However, like i said, some of them don't, and some of them contradict with other Hadiths (regarding the beating), and some of them contradict with the idea of submission first and foremost to god. There is no such thing to me in Islam as submission except to god. The term itself is inappropriate in my view to be used in reference to anything or anybody except god.

So, in a nutshell, seeing the multiple sources, contradictions, different interpretations (and so on), i arrive at a completely different conclusion than you do. I hope you understand me now. I can't make it any more clear than this.

hey by the way I did not remember that you post interpretations , sources, references ?
or you are the source (interpretater ) ?

 

[beenie]

hey by the way I did not remember that you post interpretations , sources, references ?
or you are the source (interpretater ) ?

He is giving you his interpretation of those verses, which happens to differ from yours. Why are you having such a hard time understanding this?

 

[Badran]

hey by the way I did not remember that you post interpretations , sources, references ?
or you are the source (interpretater ) ?

The answer to your question is here.

 

[Godobeyer]

i have two questions one for western and other for muslims
and about a man let his wife go to massage of Olive by man !!!
or the vera ?

this question is for muslims and westerns , because i did not find an answser about it .
could we call the wife which did not care about her husband , if he cheat her or kiss other woman
we can called her cuckold ? or its special for men ?

 

[Draka]

I think it would be nice to go get a massage together. I don't think it much matters what gender the masseuses are. Actually, I think that's something nice we should plan soon. Thanks for the idea.

As to the second point, I think you have very drastic differences in ideas as to what "cheating" is than most people and that's where you run into issues. Most people don't consider dancing or polite kisses of congratulations or meeting "cheating" and certainly wouldn't think of someone being cuckold over it. Sharing conversation, a meal, or a drink are things done between friends and in most places, with most people, friendship doesn't have gender-limitations.

 

[Godobeyer]

I think it would be nice to go get a massage together. I don't think it much matters what gender the masseuses are. Actually, I think that's something nice we should plan soon. Thanks for the idea.

As to the second point, I think you have very drastic differences in ideas as to what "cheating" is than most people and that's where you run into issues. Most people don't consider dancing or polite kisses of congratulations or meeting "cheating" and certainly wouldn't think of someone being cuckold over it. Sharing conversation, a meal, or a drink are things done between friends and in most places, with most people, friendship doesn't have gender-limitations.

i guess i am influnced by holywood movies
in holywood make all the alien down to usa
all the comet down to usa
all the phoneman begin in usa
all the wifes could cheating , and if he killed/slap/divorce her for that , he is bad person , and vesa-vera
the cheating for love or sex is become in your media as big title using almost in every movie .epecialy romance movies !!!

 

[beenie]

i guess i am influnced by holywood movies
in holywood make all the alien down to usa
all the comet down to usa
all the phoneman begin in usa
all the wifes could cheating , and if he killed/slap/divorce her for that , he is bad person , and vesa-vera
the cheating for love or sex is become in your media as big title using almost in every movie .epecialy romance movies !!!

Cheating happens everywhere, including Algeria.
It's just not sensationalized like it is in Hollywood movies. Trust me though, most Westerners' lives are pretty boring.

 

[Draka]

Cheating happens everywhere, including Algeria.
It's just not sensationalized like it is in Hollywood movies. Trust me though, most Westerners' lives are pretty boring.

I think he just needs to understand that movie making is a business. It is done for entertainment value. We watch the extreme stuff, the exciting stuff, because for most of us, life is pretty routine. We want to be entertained, taken away to imagine for a while. To laugh and to scorn, to scream and to cheer. Movies shouldn't really be taken as examples of life, they should be examples of what is not normal. For if our normal lives were on the screen, why would we pay to watch them?

 

[beenie]

I think he just needs to understand that movie making is a business. It is done for entertainment value. We watch the extreme stuff, the exciting stuff, because for most of us, life is pretty routine. We want to be entertained, taken away to imagine for a while. To laugh and to scorn, to scream and to cheer. Movies shouldn't really be taken as examples of life, they should be examples of what is not normal. For if our normal lives were on the screen, why would we pay to watch them?

Exactly. Watching those movies is often a form of escaping reality.

 

[Godobeyer]

Cheating happens everywhere, including Algeria.

hey , did i say that Algeria is the best place where no one cheat the others
the cheating is everywhere , but for my opinion, and i guess in the west (cheating) is too more than the muslim countries
what is your opinion honesly ?

It's just not sensationalized like it is in Hollywood movies. Trust me though, most Westerners' lives are pretty boring.

look i had friends (Algerians) in France , they lived there , they told me is the sex is everywhere ,in work , street , in trees
edited:
and i remember an accident happened in UAE , when the police caught a westerns couple make sex in a public beach .
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ish-couple-jailed-for-sex-on-Dubai-beach.html
they are becoming export the adultery to us hhhhhhhhhhh