The Definition Of "libertarian"

[Revoltingest]

I'm not claiming that free market libertarians don't exist. Illustrating that they do is not a very effective rebuttal against the claim that libertarian socialists ALSO exist.

I'm not making that argument.
You quoted a query to a specific poster to understand her perspective.

 

[Alceste]

I'm not making that argument.

Well good! Let's all have a big libertarian group hug then. 1, 2, 3, **** the police!

Now let's hug.

 

[Iti oj]

Well good! Let's all have a big libertarian group hug then. 1, 2, 3, **** the police!

Now let's hug.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

That's just the thing. I am a libertarian. When this DIR cropped up, I was all "WOOHOO" because I have identified as a libertarian socialist / anarchosocialist / anarchosyndicalist for my entire adult life. Then all of a sudden Rev voted himself the DIR bouncer and chased me away, claiming that none of these well-established political philosophies even exist. Or that if they do, it's irrelevant because the politically unsophisticated American masses should get to decide what "libertarian" means, not the people who coined the term or the academics around the world who study their work.

I wasn't actually referring to you, but thanks for the response.

Also, anywhere I've lived in the world, calling myself a libertarian has caused no confusion. Perhaps the US should adapt to the rest of the world and not the other way around.

Well, I don't think that's really the issue or a reasonable solution insofar as the rules of an indiviudal internet forum are concerned. Since people seem to have one of two general views of "libertarianism," which are somewhat incompatible with each other, perhaps a more workable solution would be to separate the subforum into two, more specifically defined subforums, so that each contingent can freely discuss their particular views and ideas, without threads tending to devolve into arguments based on differing ideas of what libertarianism is.

Then again, I suspect many people are here more for arguing than for earnest discussion, so it might be fine left the way it is.

 

[Revoltingest]

Every one here agrees that state run socialism would not be libertarian.

You've inferred that, but I'm less sure that all agree....which is one reason I bring it up.

Only you have brought it up. In your op you posted the wiki, one we all agreed with it stated as such.

As I've repeatedly pointed out, voluntary socialism (ie, no state imposition) comports
well with being a "libertarian". No suffix is needed...it's neither right nor left.
(I've even advocated that people practice this when it suits them.)
If this type of socialism (agreed upon by individuals without coercion) is "libertarian",
then why introduce the label "libertarian socialism"?

 

[Iti oj]

How does one escape a capitalistic system? How Does one just live?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Why would anyone who doesn't classify themselves as a libertarian argue so much about why they should be classified as a libertarian? Or anything else for that matter?

Because asking questions is typically how one gains knowledge. I was apparently mistaken and have been reading very one sided positions, and I am seeking to fill in the holes.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

That's just the thing. I am a libertarian. When this DIR cropped up, I was all "WOOHOO" because I have identified as a libertarian socialist / anarchosocialist / anarchosyndicalist for my entire adult life. Then all of a sudden Rev voted himself the DIR bouncer and chased me away, claiming that none of these well-established political philosophies even exist. Or that if they do, it's irrelevant because the politically unsophisticated American masses should get to decide what "libertarian" means, not the people who coined the term or the academics around the world who study their work.

Also, anywhere I've lived in the world, calling myself a libertarian has caused no confusion. Perhaps the US should adapt to the rest of the world and not the other way around.

I'm confused about this, too. I'm an anarcho-communist, so I guess my views could fall under some definitions of the libertarian label. Anarcho-communism is also called libertarian communism, after all.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I'm confused about this, too. I'm an anarcho-communist, so I guess my views could fall under some definitions of the libertarian label.

Do you generally go around telling people that you're a libertarian?

 

[Iti oj]

You've inferred that, but I'm less sure that all agree....which is one reason I bring it up.




As I've repeatedly pointed out, voluntary socialism (ie, no state imposition) comports
well with being a "libertarian". No suffix is needed...it's neither right nor left.
If this type of socialism (agreed upon by individuals without coercion) is "libertarian",
then why introduce the label "libertarian socialism"?

To distinguish from the capitalistic system. Were not Capitalist. We are socialist. You are a capitalist. Were both Libertarians.

Now it seems we can agree...

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm confused about this, too. I'm an anarcho-communist, so I guess my views could fall under some definitions of the libertarian label.

And if my belief voluntary socialism is "libertarian socialism", then the latter
term's inclusion in the Socialism Only forum definition would let me post there.

 

[Iti oj]

Is capitalism voluntary?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

And if my belief voluntary socialism is "libertarian socialism", then the latter
term's inclusion in the Socialism Only forum definition would let me post there.

I won't stop you. Lol.

 

[Iti oj]

And if my belief voluntary socialism is "libertarian socialism", then the latter
term's inclusion in the Socialism Only forum definition would let me post there.

No because your a capitalist not a socialist.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm confused about this, too. I'm an anarcho-communist, so I guess my views could fall under some definitions of the libertarian label. Anarcho-communism is also called libertarian communism, after all.

If you're socially liberal, & allow voluntary economic relationships, including
both capitalism & communism, then I'd say you're a libertarian.

 

[Revoltingest]

No because your a capitalist not a socialist.

According to RF definitions & the interpretations here, I'm a "libertarian socialist" (also "right leaning libertarian" & "libertarian").
This is cuz I favor people voluntarily forming socialist (& capitalist, & foraging, & subsistance) relationships.
So if a libertarian socialist is a socialist, then I guess I am.
Weird, eh??

 

[Iti oj]

Is capitalism voluntary?

Is it?

 

[Revoltingest]

I won't stop you. Lol.

Don't worry....someone will.
I've long called myself a "liberal" cuz I'm a "classical liberal" / "Jeffersonian liberal",
but I just got kicked out of the Liberal Only forum after posting there many times.
I guess I'm just the wrong kind of "liberal".
I thought I could be a liberal & a libertarian, but they said it's not allowed.

 

[Iti oj]

What post number do I owe you frubal for? It got buried before I got a chance.

 

[Revoltingest]

Is capitalism voluntary?

It sure seems so to me.
I have always been able to:
- Pick my customers
- Pick my employers
- Set my prices
- Quit when I want
- Change jobs when I want
- Negotiate wages & bennies
- Switch banks when I want
- Lend money when I want
- Borrow money when I want....& someone's willing to lend
- Do as I please regardless of anyone's religion
- Deal with anyone of any political persuasion
This seems like a whole lotta liberty.

If a government told me whom to work for, prohibited me from owning my
business+assets, or otherwise prevented me from associating with people when
I wanted, then this is the opposite of liberty.