The Definition Of "libertarian"

[Revoltingest]

I subscribe to the common view that left / right is an economic spectrum upon which I sit about as far as possible to the left. The libertarian / authoritarian spectrum has nothing to do with our preferred models for the organization of production and everything to do with receptivity to state coercion. On this spectrum I sit almost as far as possible to the libertarian end.

This is unclear to me, since it doesn't explicitly address the extent
to which you'd have government control the economy.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm confused. As far as I knew, Libertarianism was all about the free market and private ownership of production/distribution? But, according to the classification of social anarchism, I could post in the Libertarian thread, even though Libertarian, from what I knew, is a label that barely applies to me because of my views of owning the means of distribution/production and promoting social equality above maximizing freedoms.
It seems the more specific we try to be with labels, the more confusing things get.

I think this is the 1st time I've given a frubie for being confused.
(I like having company.)

 

[Alceste]

I'm confused. As far as I knew, Libertarianism was all about the free market and private ownership of production/distribution? But, according to the classification of social anarchism, I could post in the Libertarian thread, even though Libertarian, from what I knew, is a label that barely applies to me because of my views of owning the means of distribution/production and promoting social equality above maximizing freedoms.
It seems the more specific we try to be with labels, the more confusing things get.

You are thinking of a uniquely American, populist definition of libertarianism. The rest of us are using an academic definition with a different meaning. AKA, the opposite of authoritarianism. The US spent decades trying to convince Americans that socialism and authoritarianism are interchangeable terms, so your confusion is completely understandable. Those efforts at redefining these political philosophies never really took off outside your borders. Mainly because they do not correlate with the real world.

 

[Revoltingest]

Edit: your table, which substitutes populism for authoritarianism, makes no logical sense to me, so I won't be using it.

I prefer the modified Nolan chart used in The World's Smallest Political Quiz.
Again, this is a more US understanding than Political Compass.

I sit up there just south of the top corner.

 

[Alceste]

This is unclear to me, since it doesn't explicitly address the extent
to which you'd have government control the economy.

Protecting the environment and preventing monopolies. I'm positive I already said that.

 

[Tarheeler]

I'm confused. As far as I knew, Libertarianism was all about the free market and private ownership of production/distribution?

That's a good definition of free-market capitalism. Libertarianism is something else.

But, according to the classification of social anarchism, I could post in the Libertarian thread, even though Libertarian, from what I knew, is a label that barely applies to me because of my views of owning the means of distribution/production and promoting social equality above maximizing freedoms.
It seems the more specific we try to be with labels, the more confusing things get.

That's because most people don't have a working vocabulary when it comes to politic theory.
There's a thread from last year, What is a Libertarian, where we into depth over the definition. There's a lot of good info and links to articles in that thread.

 

[Revoltingest]

They are not going to change the definition to suit a conservative.

And the theme of dishonesty continues....

 

[Revoltingest]

We've been arguing about this for well over a year, and I really have no intention of carrying on with it any longer. You asked for clarification on the new criteria, and I provided it.

Was Badran wrong in stating that the definitions were to be based upon US usage?

 

[Tarheeler]

Was Badran wrong in stating that the definitions were to be based upon US usage?

I've already explained that, Rev.

 

[Alceste]

I prefer the modified Nolan chart used in The World's Smallest Political Quiz.
Again, this is a more US understanding than Political Compass.

I sit up there just south of the top corner.

Yeah, I did not find this quiz to be relevant to any of the countries I have lived and traveled, or consistent with my understanding of political philosophy. It does help me understand why you keep calling me a liberal, but using standard definitions, for example Wikipedia or the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, I am not one.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

I think these so-called right-wingish libertarians have a very screwed up definition as to what liberty means. Usually for them it means "Liberty for me! You go get your own."

 

[Revoltingest]

I think these so-called right-wingish libertarians have a very screwed up definition as to what liberty means. Usually for them it means "Liberty for me! You go get your own."

Do you even call yourself a "libertarian"?

 

[Alceste]

I think these so-called right-wingish libertarians have a very screwed up definition as to what liberty means. Usually for them it means "Liberty for me! You go get your own."

It seems that perhaps they don't recognize the existence of economic coercion, or at least don't view it as an affront to individual liberty.

 

[Revoltingest]

I've already explained that, Rev.

I missed an explanation which would answer my query....

Was Badran wrong in stating that the definitions were to be based upon US usage?

 

[Alceste]

Do you even call yourself a "libertarian"?

I would call her one. I've never seen her express support for state coercion as a tool for social control.

 

[Revoltingest]

It seems that perhaps they don't recognize the existence of economic coercion, or at least don't view it as an affront to individual liberty.

Perhaps you two are overly comfortable with government imposed coercion, eh?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Do you even call yourself a "libertarian"?

What part of Anarcho-socialist do you not understand?

 

[Revoltingest]

What part of Anarcho-socialist do you not understand?

You'll have the answer to your erroneous question if you read the thread...including my posts.
Voluntary socialism is simply "libertarian"....without any preffix or suffix.
Government imposed socialism is not "libertarian"....no matter what suffix one adds.

 

[Tarheeler]

I missed an explanation which would answer my query....

It was in my second post, Rev.

 

[Revoltingest]

Let's look at the definition.....

Libertarian: This term means very different things depending on where one is located, but the general philosophy is that liberty is paramount. In the US, it is generally used to describe right-libertarianism; this ideology tends to be socially liberal and fiscally conservative, and can be described as minarchist. In Europe, the term is typically used for left-libertarianism; this ideology stresses social justice and individual freedom, and is often described as libertarian socialism. People who find themselves in this ideology often identify with political organizations such as: the Libertarian Party (US), the Libertarian Party of Canada, the Occupy Movement, and the “New Left” Movement.

This appears to include anyone who is socially liberal.
So I ask my fellow posters, is there any socially liberal poster who would be excluded?