The demon possessed...

[ayani]

Ragor ~

no, i have never had encounters with anything that could be described as "angelic".

 

[MSizer]

M ~

i said "reading the text..." meaning reading the contents of the narrative and assuming that they record true events, as i presume an ordained pastor would. now if you come into the text denying the existence or relevance of anything unseen and spiritual, well, a lot gets automatically discounted and thrown out the window. this is why Christians read the Gospel narratives as describing true events in a linear sequence, both the material (places, people, times of day) and the spiritual (demons, miracles, and Christ's resurrection from the dead) as eually true and indivisible parts of the same story.

OK, fair enough. My apologies on that particular post. May I add thought I that I find it highly curious that a person as eloquent and apparently logical as yourself espouses the idea that a neighbor speaking in a bizarre voice is evidence for the existence of demons?

 

[ayani]

and i agree, one person's "angel of God" could be another person's evil spirit in disguise. depends on how you measure the spiritual truth of a message, and in which prophets one believes.

 

[blackout]

A Magus of such ability as the character Y'shua embodies
would be able to manipulate even the energy/reality/illusion/vision/health of another person,
without their conscent and/or cooperation...

weather you see the stories as true,
or metaphor... and allegory.

Even people's illusions sometimes need to be dis'spelled.
It takes a powerful Magus/Maga to dispell the illusions and energy structures,
of anOther... in one go.

 

[ayani]

M ~

well, one has to look at the context, too. a person taking the time to turn around after a conversation is through and they're walking away, screw up their face at you, and utter a wholly irrelevant very sarcastic statement in a squeaky voice which does not quite sound like them. this from a very nice, respectful man who claims to love and follow Christ, and respect Christianity. at the time, i just thought it to be a very weird and uncharaceristic thing to say. in determining (from my Christian pov) what is normal and what is out of place can involve looking at the subject being discussed, the person's behaviour, and the person's otherwise normal habits and personality.

 

[blackout]

M ~

well, one has to look at the context, too. a person taking the time to turn around after a conversation is through and they're walking away, screw up their face at you, and utter a wholly irrelevant very sarcastic statement in a squeaky voice which does not quite sound like them. this from a very nice, respectful man who claims to love and follow Christ, and respect Christianity. at the time, i just thought it to be a very weird and uncharaceristic thing to say. in determining (from my Christian pov) what is normal and what is out of place can involve looking at the subject being discussed, the person's behaviour, and the person's otherwise normal habits and personality.

Perhaps the sarcasm was actually the real him.
And the other nice christian veneer was the posession.

Perhaps he was subconsciously just trying to get out from under it.

Just a thought, from another possible perspective.

I have DEFINATELY seen Christianity make people WEIRD.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I have DEFINATELY seen Christianity make people WEIRD.

****, me too.

As a pastor I remind folks that the lost are in the churches and everyone on the outside is fine.

It's the sick that need a doctor.

 

[Kimberlee]

i've defiantely encountered a couple weird situations, especially since becoming a Christian. i never quote used to believe in demons or evil, but i do now.

i've had a couple of incidents where i'll be talking to someone, especially about Christian topics or the Gospel, and weird things will come out of their mouth, wholly unrelated to the topic at hand. it's not as thought they're just side tracking, it's almost like something else is speaking through them. it's truly odd, and discomforting.

i remember one incident where a customer at work began talking to me about the Bible, and his beliefs as a New Thought adherent. i don't usually talk religion with customers, but this guy was a neighbor and we'd haggled about this topic before. i suggested to him, earnestly, that he simply sit down with the Bible, and if confused, just as God what is true about Jesus (this was a very Christian conversation). and as he was walking away (conversation was done) he turned back to me and said in this sqeaky, mocking voice "oh, i walk with Jesus every day!", in a very sarcastic and nasty tone. this from a man who is very nice and who claims to truly love Jesus. it was weird. i wondered what on earth had sparked him to say that, and mentioned it to my husband later, who suggested that perhaps it wasn't him talking.

any other Christians or non-Christians experience this?

i haven't experienced this but it is biblical like you say. that's what we are going over in the new testament. the demons would speak and recognised jesus as the holy one. notice the demon says "us" so there were more than one in this man.

luke 4:
33In the synagogue there was a man possessed by a demon, an evil[g]spirit. He cried out at the top of his voice, 34"Ha! What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God!"

it is very interesting and I think christians should take it more seriously and study it.

 

[ayani]

Kimberlee ~

i agree. it's a very interesting and very serious point of study, and unfortunately too few Christians take it seriosuly. on the other hand, some people get so obsessed and freaked out by it that they work themselves into a frenzy, and forget the goodness and power of God in the process.

a Christian should remember that yes, there is evil and darkness and creepy stuff out there, but that in Christ, we have a victory. there's good news, hope, and freedom available to us in Jesus, who has overcome all that stuff, and who lives now.

 

[Kimberlee]

Kimberlee ~

i agree. it's a very interesting and very serious point of study, and unfortunately too few Christians take it seriosuly. on the other hand, some people get so obsessed and freaked out by it that they work themselves into a frenzy, and forget the goodness and power of God in the process.

a Christian should remember that yes, there is evil and darkness and creepy stuff out there, but that in Christ, we have a victory. there's good news, hope, and freedom available to us in Jesus, who has overcome all that stuff, and who lives now.

thank you for that this is true. i always pick a topic and study it..... there is so much more to learn

Revelation 22:7
"Behold, I am coming soon! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy in this book."

 

[OmarKhayyam]

Revelation 22:7
"Behold, I am coming soon! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy in this book."

Really?

Define "soon."

 

[blackout]

*sigh*
I guess we each have to live out our own mistakes.


Good luck with those demons.

 

[gnomon]

NAMI: National Alliance on Mental Illness | About Mental Illness

Depression and Bipolar Support Alliance: Improving the Lives of People Living with Mood Disorders

Narsad | NARSAD - The World''s Leading Charity Dedicated to Mental Health Research

What's the harm in exorcisms?
Though I think the veracity of some of those stories needs to be checked.

Saving Africa s Witch Children - Veoh - Strimoo.com

If you look at who are the ones running these establishments, you will again see the signs as to who is behind this. My freinds they do not want you to beleive in this, if the truth was exposed mankind would truly think in another manner, which would not suit their plans.

I know you didn't actually research any of those links.

One link specifically goes into the people who have been killed by those who believe in demons. Makes you wonder who the "real" demons are? Which of course there are not any demons........period. It's one group of irrational human beings acting on their delusions to harm another group of human beings.

Chalking up every perceived human indiscretion to demonic influence or, in your case IMAM, everything you do not like to demonic influence, is irresponsible.

 

[gnomon]

Nepenthe ~

that's a good question. if you look in the NT, many times conditions we would today call epilepsy, schizophrenia, etc. are understood to be demonic in origin, and according to those same Gospel narratives, the origin of the affliction does turn out to be spiritual, and Jesus heals that person by casting out the evil spirits within them.

this is not something many people believe today, and i've heard pastors dismiss these stories as "oh, well, back then people didn't know what a seizure was, and now our medicine is more advanced". so.....according to your own Bible which you claim to be the true Word of God Jesus was casting out bad brain chemistry, which he also talked to and cast into swine? from a purely materialistic point of view that may make more sense, but reading the whole text you can't deny that Jesus did talk to these things, did address them as demons, and that the family members of these sick people also understood these conditions to be caused by evil spirits.

you could also ask "ok, assuming there something to this, how do you tell the difference between, say, an insane person who really does just have a medical problem, and a demoniac?" that's a difficult one. my husband has been present at a couple of exorcisms, where the person came in troubled, crazed, spouting obscene nonsense, violent, hurting themselves, and sneering at everyone, and left fine, thankful, calm, and restored. now, how that happened can be explained a number of ways. the Christians perspective would be that evil had been driven out of that person by the power of Jesus' Name, as per the NT. where numerous other tactics of approach, including anti-psychotics, traditional spiritual cures, rest, psychological treatment, and tranquilizers had failed.

More irresponsibility exhibited by a human being.

I give you the same suggestion I gave to the OP. Put the religious texts down and actually go to those people who treat, research or actually suffer from mental illnesses.

 

[Autodidact]

so we have been studying demon possession in bible study at my church which has been a really interesting study and has actually convicted me to not listen to the music i used to and this was just about 2 weeks ago. anyways i believe satan works through people with demons to attack God and his believers. rather it be through music or your everyday people. we talked about how we believe people that are sucidal are demon possessed because God would never want anyone to harm their body (temple) only satan could promote such behavior. demon possession is biblical of course.----

BibleGateway.com - Keyword*Search: demon

not only that you can have more than one demon at a time. i dunno just wanna see what you guys think about it. do you think that satan is working through people with demons... his angels. because what i get from the scripture is that the demons are the third of the angels that came with satan from heaven. oh and being oppressed or possessed by demons what is the difference to you?

I think that primitive, superstitious, magical thinking is dangerous.

 

[MSizer]

...i believe satan works through people with demons to attack God...

I can't wait for my turn. I'm gonna get some cowboy boots and kick him in the pouch.

 

[Mr Cheese]

I realize this will sound harsh, but I don't mean it as an insult. I'm saying it becaus I feel it matters very much.

I hope that either nobody who depends on you suffers from mental illness, or for their sake, you abandon mythology and embrace education.

mental illness is the road to freedom

--Pigface

 

[MSizer]

mental illness is the road to freedom

--Pigface

If that is true, let me assure you, freedom sucks for a lot of people. Big time.

 

[Mr Cheese]

satan really is just the self...

You'll notice , those that worry about demons tend to worry about demons
and not so much about God....

I ahve some great recordings from an online chat forums...of a guy describing hell and its spiders....

Yet he couldnt describe heaven in such detail....

..............

Had a dream last night
That I was dead
Had a dream last night
That I was dead

Evil spirits
All around my bed

The devil came
And grabbed my hand
The devil came
And grabbed my hand

Took me way down
To that red hot land

Mean blues spirits
Stuck their forks in me
Mean blues spirits
Stuck their forks in me

Made me moan
And groan in misery

Fairies and dragons
Spitting out blue flames
Fairies and dragons
Spitting out blue flames

Showing their teeth
For they was glad I came

Demons with their eyelash
Dripping blood
Demons with their eyelash
Dripping blood

Dragging sinners
To their brimstone flood

"This is hell", I cried
Cried with all my might
"This is hell", I cried
Cried with all my might

Oh, my soul
I can't bear the sight

Started running
'Cause it is my cup
Started running
'Cause it is my cup

Run so fast
Till someone woke me up

--Blue SPirit blues

my fave version is done by Diamanda Galas
www.last.fm/music/Diamanda+Galás/_/Blue+Spirit+Blues
</SPAN>

 

[ayani]

More irresponsibility exhibited by a human being.

I give you the same suggestion I gave to the OP. Put the religious texts down and actually go to those people who treat, research or actually suffer from mental illnesses.

i have. and in many, many cases, that helps. i'm not against getting psychological help if it's needed. depression is real, mental illness is real, and sometimes these scientific tactics work and are a real blessing to the individual who suffers.

but other times, they don't work. i've given the example above, where everything under the sun has been tried, from a scientific, medical, and cultural perspective to help or cure the person, and get them back to normal. in the case i cited, a husband brought his wife who had been suffering terribly and causing her family to suffer for years. during the course of the prayer meeting her husband brought her to, the Christians there determined that something truly was inside this woman, prayed over her resolutely, commanded what was inside her to leave in Jesus' Name, and a couple hours later she was fine.

now you could argue the power of suggestion, but in that case her husband also brought her to many traditional (non-Christian) healers who believed (as did she) that their cures and tactics would work, and she would soon be free from her suffering. neither husband or wife were Christians, but had been told by a friend "look, if nothing else works, try those Christians. i don't know why, but what they do seems to work really well".

the Biblical background to what we believe rests on the beliefs that Jesus truly is the Son of God, that evil is real and malicious, and the Jesus has power over that evil in real ways. He is alive, powerful, and able to heal and save. it's a lot to believe, but then He informs our perspectives, approaches to life's problems, and views of self and of meaning, not just theoretically but practically, too. that is part of what it means to be a Christian- one lives for, in, and because of Christ, inside and out.