The demon possessed...

[Riverwolf]

thank you so much for your concern it means a lot. yes i am at tug o war with this.... it is such a hard transition i'm trying to be "a better person" my boyfriend mark and i have been struggling with this! he plays in a death metal band... he is an amazing drummer. they are about to release their first album. and i have promoted concerts for death metal for years! and what happened was i went to church and the pastor said we would be studying the demon possessed so i thought that would be really interesting anyways after church we went and seen the movie paranormal activity ironically because i didn't even know it was going to be about a demon so after the movie i went home and started researching it and that's were it started. the music thing isn't easy at all. i have been involved in it for a long time and i know im going to loose friends over this. i mean i was crying over it like a baby because i love my music sooooo much. i know i sound crazy and all. it's just a weird time for me.

The film affected me, as well. But remember: it's just a movie! Everything in it is pure fiction. Not to mention, because of the greatness of the special effects for the poltergeist stuff that really looked supernatural, it pretty much takes all the Youtube ghost footage not credible any more.

People report crazy things, sometimes for attention, sometimes they've misunderstood an experience. I see no reason to think that death metal, a type of music that you love, could summon a demon unless you believe and fear it will.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Riverwolf already said it better than I will be able to.



They are illusions of your own creation.

well actually

for one that has walked amongst the incoporeal....

Its reeally easy really....

life is life

and you know, just as many people are not nice people
so are many non corporeal beings

It is as simple as that ....
People want to make it more complex, its not.

Of course in the non corporeal realms, what you see is not what you get often.

But of course these are all reasons why there are tales of demons
and why there are restrictions, age, gender, eye brow length etc

why? to protect those that would venture off into such things....

Going into the non corporeal realms someone once remarked to me is like
"standing naked on a busy highway and trying to thumb a ride"

There are ways to stay safe....
There are ways to avoid nasty beings....
contrary to popular belief, not all spiitual beings are nice, sweet, helpful or friends of kittens.....

But of course the vast majority of people in this thread have no belief, let alone experience of such things...so really my words are worthless lol

but suffice to say, I have to agree, most "demons" are simply the self...
however there are malovelent beings out there.... but then there are nasty beings among the physical.....

:flirt: brother Cheese, illuminating the occult....
now over to binky

 

[gnomon]

i have. and in many, many cases, that helps. i'm not against getting psychological help if it's needed. depression is real, mental illness is real, and sometimes these scientific tactics work and are a real blessing to the individual who suffers.

but other times, they don't work. i've given the example above, where everything under the sun has been tried, from a scientific, medical, and cultural perspective to help or cure the person, and get them back to normal. in the case i cited, a husband brought his wife who had been suffering terribly and causing her family to suffer for years. during the course of the prayer meeting her husband brought her to, the Christians there determined that something truly was inside this woman, prayed over her resolutely, commanded what was inside her to leave in Jesus' Name, and a couple hours later she was fine.

now you could argue the power of suggestion, but in that case her husband also brought her to many traditional (non-Christian) healers who believed (as did she) that their cures and tactics would work, and she would soon be free from her suffering. neither husband or wife were Christians, but had been told by a friend "look, if nothing else works, try those Christians. i don't know why, but what they do seems to work really well".

the Biblical background to what we believe rests on the beliefs that Jesus truly is the Son of God, that evil is real and malicious, and the Jesus has power over that evil in real ways. He is alive, powerful, and able to heal and save. it's a lot to believe, but then He informs our perspectives, approaches to life's problems, and views of self and of meaning, not just theoretically but practically, too. that is part of what it means to be a Christian- one lives for, in, and because of Christ, inside and out.

Did you personally meet this woman?

 

[MSizer]

where everything under the sun has been tried, from a scientific, medical, and cultural perspective to help or cure the person, and get them back to normal. in the case i cited, a husband brought his wife who had been suffering terribly and causing her family to suffer for years. during the course of the prayer meeting her husband brought her to, the Christians there determined that something truly was inside this woman, prayed over her resolutely, commanded what was inside her to leave in Jesus' Name, and a couple hours later she was fine.

After a couple of years? OK, so the meds, thearpies, witch doctors and christians were tried in a serial sequence, and after a subsequent period of "a few years" you can determine it was jesus that was the cure in the end? Wow. Where is your control specimen? Did you try all options except jesus on the control specimen and wait a few years?

 

[gnomon]

And while we are at it let me ask everyone this question.

Which rite of exorcism will remove those evil spirits who take a nail and hammer it into a child's skull? Or throws acid on that child? Or put's a pillow over the face of that child?

Of course, those people just described are usually the exorcists or those believing the child is possessed.

 

[Mr Cheese]

And while we are at it let me ask everyone this question.

Which rite of exorcism will remove those evil spirits who take a nail and hammer it into a child's skull? Or throws acid on that child? Or put's a pillow over the face of that child?

Of course, those people just described are usually the exorcists or those believing the child is possessed.

the only true exorcism of course involves reading Leviticus while playing black sabbath records forward.....under a full moon naked with dead smurfs

 

[ayani]

Did you personally meet this woman?

*shakes head*, no but my husband did. she was living in his hometown, when my husband was in seminary there. the event described took place at a prayer meeting my husband attended and observed. i trust him on this, and he recalled her family situation, age, number of children, and husband's background story.

it's not uncommon where he's from, as traditional healers are a common option there when people get sick, become disturbed, have fertility problems, etc. Christians are sometimes used as a "last resort" and it's not unheard of for non-Christians to come to Christian prayer meetings in hopes of getting help for themselves, or their family members.

 

[gnomon]

*shakes head*, no but my husband did. she was living in his hometown, when my husband was in seminary there. the event described took place at a prayer meeting my husband attended and observed. i trust him on this, and he recalled her family situation, age, number of children, and husband's background story.

it's not uncommon where he's from, as traditional healers are a common option there when people get sick, become disturbed, have fertility problems, etc. Christians are sometimes used as a "last resort" and it's not unheard of for non-Christians to come to Christian prayer meetings in hopes of getting help for themselves, or their family members.

What was the woman sick from? Was it just a personality conflict between husband and wife? Do you actually know anything about what they were going through?

I'm pretty sure I've been around a lot more mentally ill people than yourself. Just about all of them came from their Church or religion of choice before seeking proper treatment.

 

[gnomon]

the only true exorcism of course involves reading Leviticus while playing black sabbath records forward.....under a full moon naked with dead smurfs

Actually, I was thinking a hanging from the gallows would be a more appropriate rite for some of them.

 

[linwood]

the only true exorcism of course involves reading Leviticus while playing black sabbath records forward.....under a full moon naked with dead smurfs

Impossible.

It`s common knowledge that Smurfs are immortal and indestructible.

False dilemma.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Ragor ~

no, i have never had encounters with anything that could be described as "angelic".

nor should you really be admitting to it, if you had:run:

 

[ayani]

the funny thing is, she didn't seem to be sick from anything definable. a servant had made a pass at her, she rejected him, told him to take a hike, and he gave her a glass of water to drink the next day. that, according to her husband, is when the trouble started.

for 16 years, the woman (with three children and a loving and happy husband) had a complete change of personality. she would go into fits, begin to scream, dance, jump, hurt herself, withdraw from people, and throw things. up to them she had been fine. dignified lady, who changed over night, and became very unpredictable. she wasn't that bad all the time, but what ever was wrong with her would tend to flare up, and terrify and distress her family.

now, one could argue that the water may have been poisoned. but why have the effects of the poison leave the body suddenly after going to a prayer meeting, being prayed over in Jesus' Name, and asking the power at work with her to leave? you could argue coincidence. good timing. she may have been mentally ill and been suddenly "cured" by the power of suggestion. but then why not get healed suggestively by the traditonal healers you already believe in? why get healed in the prayer meeting of a faith you don't believe in, and regard as alien and foreign?

i'm just saying. one need not atrribute it to anything spiritual, or to Jesus' Name. but the truth is that the last tactic worked, and worked finally, where a lot else had failed.

What was the woman sick from? Was it just a personality conflict between husband and wife? Do you actually know anything about what they were going through?

I'm pretty sure I've been around a lot more mentally ill people than yourself. Just about all of them came from their Church or religion of choice before seeking proper treatment.

 

[gnomon]

i'm just saying. one need not atrribute it to anything spiritual, or to Jesus' Name. but the truth is that the last tactic worked, and worked finally, where a lot else had failed.

So you've seen this woman since then?

 

[ayani]

gnomon, this happened in another country some years ago, but my husband was an eye-witness to the event, and he relayed this story to me a few times, as well as the location, date, and the circumstances. he did see the woman a few months after the prayer meeting, and she was fine. none of the symptoms she'd been struggling with earlier, husband was happy, kids were happy.

 

[ayani]

it's a bit like what happens here: actually, it's the exact same thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ep6kxVNfzk

now, you can attribute this to a lot. but the same thing happened in those prayer meetings in my husband's home city. are demons real, and is there power in Jesus' Name? i wouldn't expect most people to believe it, because it does sound very strange. but things do happen to people which may or may not be explainable as, for example, a chemical imbalance which can be treated with medicine or fresh air.

 

[Cobblestones]

so we have been studying demon possession in bible study

Here's my take on the whole demon thing:

1) "There was war in heaven" - OK, so out of the trillion trillion stars, planets, asteroids, comets and whatnot in the universe, God chose to send Lucifer to Earth - one of the few places where there are rational life forms? That does not sound at all reasonable to me, particularly if God cares about those innocent life forms. That's like sentencing a serial killer to go do as he pleases in a stadium full of people. It's not remotely rational.

2) A whole heck of a lot of what was once considered to be "demon possession" is now understood to be the result of physical ailments in the human body. Epilepsy is one. Bipolar disorder is another. These are physical ailments that are treatable by physical means. In which case, there is nothing "spiritual" about them. How could a demon be affected by phenobarbital?

3) The basis of your particular belief system is the Bible. It seems to me that you have one of two choices. Either the Bible is infallible (in which case you have a good basis for your claims about demons) or it is not (in which case you cannot rely on it). Point #2 demonstrates that the Bible is not infallible and there is a whole host of other evidence that also proves that there are things in the Bible that are in fact not true and indeed not possible.

4) Demonology and the end-times are really big topics among Christians because they are sensational issues. I grew up under the same teachings that you are under now. I know what I'm talking about here. Talk of demons and the rapture and the end times only serves one purpose - to promote fear. And fearful people are easily manipulated. Anyone trying to scare you into thinking one way or another is hurting you.

5) To say that demons use music to corrupt people is as reasonable as saying that they are responsible for Fritos and other foods that are unhealthy and high in cholesterol and that such foods are designed with the express purpose of killing humans.

6) Demons are simply part of the myth of creation and heaven and hell. If you look at them as allegorical reflections of negative human traits then that's all fine and well. But if you look at them as real individual entities then that's another matter entirely because there is no evidence that such entities exist in the physical universe. None. Except in your imagination.

 

[darkendless]

Why is it only believers who see daemonic possession? Its never non-believers, only theists? Maybe they want to see such things?

 

[Kimberlee]

Why is it only believers who see daemonic possession? Its never non-believers, only theists? Maybe they want to see such things?

i have def heard of even atheist experiencing "demons"... and come to think of it actually there was some guy posting in the paranormal activity section of the forum who said his girlfriend was struggling with this and she was an atheist and people just made fun of him... i dunno it could not be real but you should still take something like that seriously when someone is wanting your help even if you don't believe in demons. there could be something serious going on and people just made fun of it. anyways it's not just christians that see it. plus christians are who satan wants... he already has a hold of nonbelievers. these "demons" are satans angels. the third of the angels that came with him when he rebelled against God.

 

[Commoner]

Why is it only believers who see daemonic possession? Its never non-believers, only theists? Maybe they want to see such things?

I don't think it's necessarily a question of "wanting", it's pretty unavoidable really - if you believe something, true or flase, you'll interpret things to fit that. It doesn't have to be a case of "wishful thinking", such misinterpetations can be quite unpleasant.

 

[Commoner]

i have def heard of even atheist experiencing "demons"... and come to think of it actually there was some guy posting in the paranormal activity section of the forum who said his girlfriend was struggling with this and she was an atheist and people just made fun of him... i dunno it could not be real but you should still take something like that seriously when someone is wanting your help even if you don't believe in demons. there could be something serious going on and people just made fun of it. anyways it's not just christians that see it. plus christians are who satan wants... he already has a hold of nonbelievers. these "demons" are satans angels. the third of the angels that came with him when he rebelled against God.

On the other hand, believing in something so obviously false and thus ignoring the (potential) real issue could be even more harmful than making fun of a person believing in demonic possessions. At least that might help move the focus on the real issue.