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The demon problem

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Lies can be determined the same way as so far as if it only helps self, but truth helps self to help others.
 
arthra

arthra

Baha'i
savagewind said:
A demon is believed to be a real character who causes trouble on purpose and there are believed to be many such characters.

It seems they are not mentioned in the Hebrew Scriptures (OT) but Jesus spoke of them. What are they?

Satan is called the father of the lie and it is taught demons belong to him.

So demons and lies coexist.

Demon might be the name of something that believes it is right but it is wrong. If that is correct a demon need not be something on purpose and a demon might not be malevolent but still very dangerous.
Click to expand...

For Baha'is anyway "demons" represent our lower nature .. not a supernatural being....and Satan has no ontological reality.


"The reality underlying this is that the evil spirit, Satan or whatever is interpreted as evil, refers to the lower nature of man. This basic nature is symbolized in various ways. In man there are two expressions; One is the expression of nature, the other the expression of the spiritual realm. The world of nature is defective. Look at it clearly, casting aside all superstition and imagination... God has never created an evil spirit; all such ideas and nomenclature are symbols expressing the mere human or earthly nature of man. It is an essential condition of the soil of earth thorns, weeds and fruitless trees may grow from it. Relatively speaking, this is evil: it is simply the lower state and basic product of nature.

('Abdu'l-Bahá: Promulgation of Universal Peace, pp. 294-295, 1982 ed.)

(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 512)
 
savagewind

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
arthra said:
For Baha'is anyway "demons" represent our lower nature .. not a supernatural being....and Satan has no ontological reality.


"The reality underlying this is that the evil spirit, Satan or whatever is interpreted as evil, refers to the lower nature of man. This basic nature is symbolized in various ways. In man there are two expressions; One is the expression of nature, the other the expression of the spiritual realm. The world of nature is defective. Look at it clearly, casting aside all superstition and imagination... God has never created an evil spirit; all such ideas and nomenclature are symbols expressing the mere human or earthly nature of man. It is an essential condition of the soil of earth thorns, weeds and fruitless trees may grow from it. Relatively speaking, this is evil: it is simply the lower state and basic product of nature.
Click to expand...

I think it is true but I believe there is more to it than that. I think the temptation of Jesus in the wilderness was not him talking to himself. Luke 4:1-13
 
BruceDLimber

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
savagewind said:
I don't understand this much. Is the quote you quoted me a passive example?
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I posted no quote whatever here.

Are you using the phrase cop-out to describe me as one who is making excuses? And if so who do you think I am excusing, me or someone else? Can you please be more specific? It sounds like you want to help, but your message is not coming through.
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There are two different "voices" in English:

  • Active voice, such as: I washed the car.
  • Passive voice, such as: The car was washed.
Notice that use of the passive is a convenient way to avoid saying WHO did something, as the above example demonstrates.

And what I had pointed out to YOU is that your use of the passive voice was likewise an easy way of not identifying the actor in the statement, and that whether this was your intention or not (maybe it wasn't), doing that often some sort of cop-out or avoidance.

Clear now, I trust?

Bruce
 
savagewind

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
BruceDLimber said:


I posted no quote whatever here.



There are two different "voices" in English:

  • Active voice, such as: I washed the car.
  • Passive voice, such as: The car was washed.
Notice that use of the passive is a convenient way to avoid saying WHO did something, as the above example demonstrates.

And what I had pointed out to YOU is that your use of the passive voice was likewise an easy way of not identifying the actor in the statement, and that whether this was your intention or not (maybe it wasn't), doing that often some sort of cop-out or avoidance.

Clear now, I trust?

Bruce
Click to expand...

Thank you. Very clear. I looked it up but it was not clear.

I can only use the active voice for myself. I do not know anyone else. If it's passive it means I don't know who. If it's me, I will say so.

You are a good teacher.
 
arcanum

arcanum

Active Member
gnostic said:
If that's true, then the New Testament say one thing, while the Old Testament.

With the New Testament, it may say that evil spirits or demons may be under the Devil's or Satan's rule, but in 1 Samuel 16, 18, 19 clearly stated that God had sent an evil spirit against Saul.

In the Old Testament, God command and control all spirits, good and evil.
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The cosmic ecology of the New testament didn't form in a vaccum, It would be an interesting study to see how such ideas as evil spirits/demons evolved in the Hebrew writings, most especially the inter testament period. I think there is a huge gap of missing material if one only relies on the old and new testaments.
 
ZenMonkey

ZenMonkey

St. James VII
savagewind said:
A demon is believed to be a real character who causes trouble on purpose and there are believed to be many such characters.

It seems they are not mentioned in the Hebrew Scriptures (OT) but Jesus spoke of them. What are they?

Satan is called the father of the lie and it is taught demons belong to him.

So demons and lies coexist.

Demon might be the name of something that believes it is right but it is wrong. If that is correct a demon need not be something on purpose and a demon might not be malevolent but still very dangerous.
Click to expand...


As I understand it, Satan is simply our sin nature and Satan's angels, a.k.a. "demons" are simply the children of disobedience, "sinners". The Devil (Satan) is said to deceive the 'whole' world. I agree. Our sin nature is an extremely deceptive thing, and we are all deceived to some extent.
 
A

Awoon

Well-Known Member
savagewind said:
A demon is believed to be a real character who causes trouble on purpose and there are believed to be many such characters.

It seems they are not mentioned in the Hebrew Scriptures (OT) but Jesus spoke of them. What are they?

Satan is called the father of the lie and it is taught demons belong to him.

So demons and lies coexist.

Demon might be the name of something that believes it is right but it is wrong. If that is correct a demon need not be something on purpose and a demon might not be malevolent but still very dangerous.
Click to expand...

This church knows all about demons.

We Deliver | Hegewisch Baptist
 
Last edited by a moderator:
savagewind

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Awoon said:
Any who. They believe in Demons and anyone can have them. Christians and non Christians.
Click to expand...

I do not like the expression believing in. I hardly ever use it. I believe demons are a real phenomenon. I do not know if demons are all the same kind of things. I believe what the New Testament writers wrote about them. I see no evidence that points to the fact they are distinct personalities. I believe they can influence a person but only if the person allows it, consciously or unconciously.
 
A

Awoon

Well-Known Member
savagewind said:
I do not like the expression believing in. I hardly ever use it. I believe demons are a real phenomenon. I do not know if demons are all the same kind of things. I believe what the New Testament writers wrote about them. I see no evidence that points to the fact they are distinct personalities. I believe they can influence a person but only if the person allows it, consciously or unconciously.
Click to expand...

Well that's why you need to ck out that church. Demons manifest and talk to people there. Win Worley believed everyone has Demons. He wrote many books about them.
 
savagewind

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Awoon said:
Well that's why you need to ck out that church. Demons manifest and talk to people there.
Click to expand...

I don't doubt it. I think my fire wall is blocking it or some such technical mumbo jumbo. I don't make my computer do what it doesn't want to do......

I don't know how
 
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