The denial of the pecking order is folly

[nnmartin]

We are all only truly happy when we can elevate ourselves over others.

In the secular world this usually comes down to financial status, job, position at work and postcode.

Why do people always ask you 'so what do you do for a living?' as soon as they feel they are able to.

The answer is to see whether you are above them or below them and then how to act accordingly.

Why do people ask you what your religion or denomination is?

again, this is to see if they are above or below you in their sense of the hierarchy of man.

Why do people oppose certain forms of poor relief yet happily donate to 3rd World nations - again this is to make them feel good about themselves whilst keeping the nearby poor in their own countries at a significant disadvantage to themselves and thus maintain their own Lordship status.

We all think we are God and conflicts always arise when our Godhood status is threatened or there is a misunderstanding about who is above who in the order of status.

Thus all mainstream religions are doomed - as we can never let go of our supposed positions - this even happens within families.

Children are always supposed to be respectful of their parents regardless, this is even one of the biblical Commandments.

So is there a way to transcend this human failing?

 

[tumbleweed41]

Have you ever thought of becoming an adherent of nihilism?

Just seems to fit the "life without purpose" theme of the OP.


Personally, I do not see myself or my life in the description you provided.

 

[jargin]

Good post. Good observations.

I don't think we are "only" happy when we are "above" others in some way. People can be happy in all sorts of different ways.

Right now it is hard for religions to "die off" and for us to have a secular global society because people cling onto certain things. When they cling to their religious beliefs it is like a last hope for them. There has always been a hierarchy within human groups whether it was alpha males leading tribes or CEO's leading corporations or the Pope leading a religious group. I think its going to be hard to make a truly even playing field because then there is less structure. There has been an effort to make women equal to men in the workplace etc, but it doesn't change the culture of having one head man or boss that everyone has to take orders from.

I'm not sure if I would call this human hierarchy "failing" unless the goal is to achieve true equality among humans. Certainly in a country like America with a Capitalist Economy there will never be financial equality because it is all about making as much money as you possibly can and there will always be a gap between the rich, the semi rich and the poor.

But Economics and Religion are completely different so when talking about life as a whole I think its very important to say that while the world may seemingly have infinite problems, that things may look bleak for the future, that life today is still far greater than life on earth was 500 years ago and the quality of life will continue to improve with technology and science leading the way. I think you have a lot of thoughts going on a lot of different subjects, I hope my response was the same way.

 

[F0uad]

I rather have not a secular system and certainly not a global one.. Just look at the counts of rapes, deaths, murders, violence, thief's in the west.. the list goes on off-course but you see my point.

I want to have a society that is: just, fair and has a golen-rule applied without ''Capitalism or Socialism'' but rather with contribution. I also do not see Islam being not a part of Economics it influences Economies like it did in the Golden-Age of Islam. And this will happen if Real Islamic law is intended in the society. For example if Saudi-Arabia as government would ''Contribute'' the money it gets from Oil among there people (As islam teaches) then nobody would have even to work in Saudi-Arabia.

 

[elmarna]

I do not see it the way you do!
If I ask you what job you have or your religion you turn to - it is because it gives me a point of view and a understanding so I can relate to you and know if we share something in common.
People who do things in aide to those in need are not without wanting to support their beliefs of compassion and kindness. While there are always people who may not have it in their heart to do this without the encouragement of "works or someone who finds it wise.I do think that if it makes them "feel good" it it not always the objectivity of "superiority" in mind!
One upmanship or superiority is not a great way to approach any relationsip. While it is my belief that simple repect and the ways of doing onto others as you would want done to you are a great way to support the humanity in life. Children who are not able to respect their parents may fall into a world of selfishness and fail in a world to support a good relationship of considering those around them. Not listening is the first step of closeing off. To support someone we must listen, consider, and speak of how we see. Share in thought and speak in what we agree.
I guess in all that is said I am a person who does not support self glorified works.
I prefer the positive ways of what my show of hands can do and the good feelings that comes to those I help. Not only are they seeing a better world , but, I find myself in a better world to feel good in! It is shareing and give and take. A relationship that let's all of us enjoy a better life!

 

[Quintessence]

*blink blink*

Don't know what world you're living in, but my glasses certainly do not see the world this way. See, as someone who as studied (too much) ecology, I understand all too well that everything is interconnected. In particular, in order to stand on "top" of something, you have to.... you know... have something to stand on top of. Take a nice long look at that pedestal you're standing on. Imagine it suddenly disappearing. Did you land hard on your ***? Of course you did. Who is really "superior" here, eh? Your "superior" status is meaningless without the pedestal, friends.

 

[nnmartin]

Have you ever thought of becoming an adherent of nihilism?

Just seems to fit the "life without purpose" theme of the OP.

I think I will check it out by doing some research.

sounds like a good idea.

 

[nnmartin]

let's think of the scenario of giving money to beggars.

Most people only give money to a beggar on the street for one of these reasons:

1. They feel guilty for not doing so
2. It makes them feel like the big man by helping the poor fellow
3. It justifies their own existence
4. It makes them look like a good Samaritan.

Each of these points show that the purpose for helping the beggar is merely to help oneself and inflate our egos.

The % of people that genuinely care for the beggar is surely very low and usually the reasons for not giving are of a similar egotistical vein. ie:

1. He's not a real beggar
2. I can't afford it
3. It makes me look soft.

So it is all about status - we give to buoy ourselves or we do not give to buoy ourselves.

The same can be said for many so-called 'religious' people.

Merely a sham for ego enhancing purposes.

 

[backwateru]

We are all only truly happy when we can elevate ourselves over others.

In the secular world this usually comes down to financial status, job, position at work and postcode.

Why do people always ask you 'so what do you do for a living?' as soon as they feel they are able to.

The answer is to see whether you are above them or below them and then how to act accordingly.

Why do people ask you what your religion or denomination is?

again, this is to see if they are above or below you in their sense of the hierarchy of man.

Why do people oppose certain forms of poor relief yet happily donate to 3rd World nations - again this is to make them feel good about themselves whilst keeping the nearby poor in their own countries at a significant disadvantage to themselves and thus maintain their own Lordship status.

We all think we are God and conflicts always arise when our Godhood status is threatened or there is a misunderstanding about who is above who in the order of status.

Thus all mainstream religions are doomed - as we can never let go of our supposed positions - this even happens within families.

Children are always supposed to be respectful of their parents regardless, this is even one of the biblical Commandments.

So is there a way to transcend this human failing?

I just like to meet people and try to make a few friends along the way.

 

[nnmartin]

you may think that but most of us have some kind of power/status issue that we defend, even without knowing it at times.

It's not just about money, but relates of course to natural abilities, looks, intelligence etc..

Just see how people react for instance when an unattractive person pulls a real looker.
All sorts of chaos caused to the Order (of status) here.

how about when someone wins a decent sum of money - the persecutions and insecurities abound.

 

[F0uad]

let's think of the scenario of giving money to beggars.

Most people only give money to a beggar on the street for one of these reasons:

1. They feel guilty for not doing so
2. It makes them feel like the big man by helping the poor fellow
3. It justifies their own existence
4. It makes them look like a good Samaritan.

Each of these points show that the purpose for helping the beggar is merely to help oneself and inflate our egos.

The % of people that genuinely care for the beggar is surely very low and usually the reasons for not giving are of a similar egotistical vein. ie:

1. He's not a real beggar
2. I can't afford it
3. It makes me look soft.

So it is all about status - we give to buoy ourselves or we do not give to buoy ourselves.

The same can be said for many so-called 'religious' people.

Merely a sham for ego enhancing purposes.

What if its a obligation in a religion?

 

[nnmartin]

let me answer that first with a question for you.

Which is: what would you do if there was a fake beggar outside your place of worship asking for money?

 

[nnmartin]

What if its a obligation in a religion?

Obligation is not the same as genuine giving.

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

We can transcend it by shedding it. But we would all have to do this for it to work. The only other way around it would to be a hermit.
People have an instinct to be part of something. This is why we see highly intelligent people members of a religion which has no empirical evidence to support it. This is why there are gangs and teams and groups and clubs. And there is also a drive to want to be tha Alpha, which is why there is an underlying current to downplay other groups and to show yours as superior.
It isn't religion, it's man. Until we take the idea seriously and let it go, it will remain present.

 

[Quintessence]

Most people only give money to a beggar on the street for one of these reasons:

1. They feel guilty for not doing so
2. It makes them feel like the big man by helping the poor fellow
3. It justifies their own existence
4. It makes them look like a good Samaritan.

Do you have any empirical evidence to back up these assertions? See, the problem with these kinds of statements is that they can be difficult to falsify. If you're going to make them at all, you really need to support them with evidence. Alternatively, change that word "most" to "some." Without statistical proof, you have no way of knowing of greater than 50% of donation cases occur for these four reasons. The same is true of your claim that the percentage of people who genuinely care for the beggar is low. Prove it. Show me the science. Otherwise, this is blind/anecdotal conjecture and cannot be taken as more true than alternative explanations.

 

[nnmartin]

I provided 50% in the reasons why people do give to beggars and then I gave you the other 50% in the reasons why people don't give to beggars.

That adds up to 100%.

So it's just a basic addition error here that is causing you the confusion.

(Of course I will admit that some people are genuine but not many - perhaps we could allow for 20% here)

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

That would be fine, but I agree with Quintessence: these statistics aren't viable and are easy to disprove. They are great opinions, but they are personal guesses with no evidence asise from personal experiences.

You paint a very distrusting view of humankind.

 

[ankarali]

We are all only truly happy when we can elevate ourselves over others.

In the secular world this usually comes down to financial status, job, position at work and postcode.

Why do people always ask you 'so what do you do for a living?' as soon as they feel they are able to.

The answer is to see whether you are above them or below them and then how to act accordingly.

Why do people ask you what your religion or denomination is?

again, this is to see if they are above or below you in their sense of the hierarchy of man.

Why do people oppose certain forms of poor relief yet happily donate to 3rd World nations - again this is to make them feel good about themselves whilst keeping the nearby poor in their own countries at a significant disadvantage to themselves and thus maintain their own Lordship status.

We all think we are God and conflicts always arise when our Godhood status is threatened or there is a misunderstanding about who is above who in the order of status.

Thus all mainstream religions are doomed - as we can never let go of our supposed positions - this even happens within families.

Children are always supposed to be respectful of their parents regardless, this is even one of the biblical Commandments.

So is there a way to transcend this human failing?

Our behaviours change to the degree of the men, if he is a rich or not then the money is the King.

We see monetary and religious discrimination in our life every where,

Whenas, we can give this job to the one who deserve it without looking his/her religion or without looking to his money in his pocket

I hope one day we will reach to this point, at first I think we must delete totally the banking system because the interest on money make rich people more rich and poor people more poor.

 

[blackout]

We are all only truly happy when we can elevate ourselves over others.

In the secular world this usually comes down to financial status, job, position at work and postcode.

Why do people always ask you 'so what do you do for a living?' as soon as they feel they are able to.

The answer is to see whether you are above them or below them and then how to act accordingly.

Why do people ask you what your religion or denomination is?

again, this is to see if they are above or below you in their sense of the hierarchy of man.

Why do people oppose certain forms of poor relief yet happily donate to 3rd World nations - again this is to make them feel good about themselves whilst keeping the nearby poor in their own countries at a significant disadvantage to themselves and thus maintain their own Lordship status.

We all think we are God and conflicts always arise when our Godhood status is threatened or there is a misunderstanding about who is above who in the order of status.

Thus all mainstream religions are doomed - as we can never let go of our supposed positions - this even happens within families.

Children are always supposed to be respectful of their parents regardless, this is even one of the biblical Commandments.

So is there a way to transcend this human failing?

Ummmm mostly people ask each other questions about themselves to get to know one another?

Some people have ulterior motives, sure.
maybe they want to convert everyone to their religion.
But THANKFULLY those are the exceptions,
and not the rule.

When you go through life assuming there's something of interest and worth
in each individual (at least until they prove you otherwise)
you see people as .... mmm... potential friends?
instead of potential 'competitors'... or 'threats'... or measures of our own worth.

If you can feel good looking at yourSelf
inside and out
YOU measure your own worth, by your OWN personal standards.
Not your percieved reflection in the face of others.

What we look for, and see, in others,
is usually indicative of the kinds of things we look for and see
in our own Selves.

I expect my children only to be as respectful to me,
as I am to them.
They will reflect my own actions and attitudes,
as I am their primary role model.

 

[blackout]

I really do find it an interesting querry that people don't work together more
to mutually help one another up.

Yes, I know our system is set up to keep us divided,
but we COULD be smarter than that.

I think the insistance on this 'nuclear family model'
keeps everyone economically isolated.

Instead of 'charity', I would much rather see a move towards smart teamwork.

I'm not holding my breath though.
The system doesn't take kindly to being 'beaten',
and most people can't think beyond the status quo. so...

divided, we will continue to fall.