The Destruction of America

[Father Heathen]

Oh it's not that we don't know there are differences, it's obvious that there are.

By ignoring it, the implication is that you should stop using terms like 'a black man or a white man' and just start using proper names without giving inference to what race that person is. That's the point I'm trying to drive home and I'm assuming God (Morgan Freeman) as well when he says that.

If you had a son who had red hair, and he came to you saying he's being bullied at school because of it, would you tell him to ignore the fact that he has red hair and the bullying will go away?

 

[Revoltingest]

Any specific examples?

The media portray black folk as victims, & white folk as perps.
They're silent when race doesn't fit that pattern.
Imagine the effect this has.

I went thru a lengthy AP article which covered many cases
of assault in recent events. Every single one fit the pattern.

 

[Father Heathen]

The media portray black folk as victims, & white folk as perps.
They're silent when race doesn't fit that pattern.
Imagine the effect this has.

I went thru a lengthy AP article which covered many cases
of assault in recent events. Every single one fit the pattern.

I know that whites can be and have been the targets of racism, and that the media treats such instances differently. Neither of which I condone, obviously.

But where is this supposed rising wave of "white hate"?

 

[Deeje]

With the coming of evil and wickedness there HAS to be conditions. That part makes a lot of sense to me. I mean if evil never existed then there would not have to be any conditions. An innocent being can't go against his own being, and why would he, that's insane!

There is a lot that makes sense when you dig a little deeper.

I don't claim to understand the Bible the way you understand it. I don't understand the commands and actions of God in the OT for instance.

Have you ever explored the reasons? God never does anything without a reason. It isn’t always obvious on the surface of it.

It is interesting to think of a world without evil and arrogancy though.

I'm not a moral relativist! There is a clear right and wrong. It's all how one defines their terms.

When you think of the start we got in Eden....we have lost so much, but God guarantees that we will get it back....we just have to be patient while he teaches the human race the value of obedience. At no other time was......”if all else fails, read the instruction” more necessary than it is now. Humans are so pathetic at ruling themselves that we are on the brink of another shirt fronting episode with a couple of overblown egos, carried away with their own importance. We are all so sick of it.

I see that mankind wants to be the authority and rule themselves as they please. I see a problem with having no standards though. You hear that everything is subjective, a matter of tastes and preferences. I don't agree with that because there are virtues and there are vices. I'm a moral objectivist you might say. However sometimes it is hard to know where to draw the line on mercy.

It’s an interesting concept, “mercy”.....it is extended by God when the circumstances warrant it, but not if there is a clear cut choice for evil. He is a reader of hearts not necessarily actions. People can sometimes do terrible things but if it was more about the circumstances rather than the action itself, God knows. This was demonstrated in Israel’s law on murder. Pre-meditated murder warranted no mercy, (it was a capital offence) but a hot flash of anger that resulted in an accidental loss of life, was not judged the same way. It was not intentional and even though there was still a penalty attached.....it wasn’t death.

We see in God’s justice that mercy was not extended emotionally. Sentiment played no part in the administration of his justice. It was based on the offenders attitude to what they had done, and whether or not they humbly owned their sin without shifting the blame or justifying it somehow.....both very human traits that we saw in Eden. Even if a murderer repented, the penalty still applied, but they had the reassurance of God’s forgiveness and the hope of a resurrection.

Human nature is predictable, but if we understand what sin does to a person, we have to be honest with ourselves before we can even be honest with God. If he is real to a person, you never have to justify or shift blame because he already knows what you did and why. Sin can be managed, but not overcome in this world. We need God’s guidance to make it through the land mines.

 

[CG Didymus]

Revelation 21:2-4 is a description of that outcome.
“2 I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

If you read those verses carefully, you will see that “New Jerusalem” is God’s Kingdom, with Jesus at the helm to usher in a new age

There is a reason why Baha'is are not worried about Christians whereas Christians are worried about Baha'is. There is also a reason why Christians attack Baha'i beliefs and Baha'u'llah whereas Baha'is do not attack Christian beliefs or Jesus, although admittedly we disagree with Christian doctrines and beliefs about the return of Christ

I have my reasons to doubt Christianity, but Revelation makes it very clear that it is this Lamb that is the one returning. Verse 14 says this Lamb had 12 Apostles. So what do Baha'i do with these "Lamb" verses? You said that the "Lamb" was probably Jesus. I don't think a Baha'i can stick with that answer. Since the Lamb is the one returning, therefore, for the Baha'is to be true, the Lamb has to be Baha'u'llah. Can you show how that would be possible?

One Baha'i said the "Lamb" that was slain was The Bab because Jesus was crucified not "slain." A Baha'i said that the Greek word in Revelation was a different word than in other references of the "Lamb" being Jesus, so therefore, this "Lamb" is different. Is there anything official, or are these just a Baha'i making guesses? If Baha'i don't have anything solid, then the Lamb is Jesus and it is the Lamb that is returning... not The Bab or Baha'u'llah.

Rev 21:9 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.”
10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.
11 It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal.
12 It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel.
13 There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west.
14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.​

 

[osgart]

There is a lot that makes sense when you dig a little deeper.


Have you ever explored the reasons? God never does anything without a reason. It isn’t always obvious on the surface of it.



When you think of the start we got in Eden....we have lost so much, but God guarantees that we will get it back....we just have to be patient while he teaches the human race the value of obedience. At no other time was......”if all else fails, read the instruction” more necessary than it is now. Humans are so pathetic at ruling themselves that we are on the brink of another shirt fronting episode with a couple of overblown egos, carried away with their own importance. We are all so sick of it.



It’s an interesting concept, “mercy”.....it is extended by God when the circumstances warrant it, but not if there is a clear cut choice for evil. He is a reader of hearts not necessarily actions. People can sometimes do terrible things but if it was more about the circumstances rather than the action itself, God knows. This was demonstrated in Israel’s law on murder. Pre-meditated murder warranted no mercy, (it was a capital offence) but a hot flash of anger that resulted in an accidental loss of life, was not judged the same way. It was not intentional and even though there was still a penalty attached.....it wasn’t death.

We see in God’s justice that mercy was not extended emotionally. Sentiment played no part in the administration of his justice. It was based on the offenders attitude to what they had done, and whether or not they humbly owned their sin without shifting the blame or justifying it somehow.....both very human traits that we saw in Eden. Even if a murderer repented, the penalty still applied, but they had the reassurance of God’s forgiveness and the hope of a resurrection.

Human nature is predictable, but if we understand what sin does to a person, we have to be honest with ourselves before we can even be honest with God. If he is real to a person, you never have to justify or shift blame because he already knows what you did and why. Sin can be managed, but not overcome in this world. We need God’s guidance to make it through the land mines.

That leads me to ask if there is an unforgivable sin?. Or a sin too far?

 

[Trailblazer]

We will all ‘know the truth’ one day.....it ‘sets us free’ from false beliefs.....false gods.....and false scripture.

I believe that we will know the truth one day, but those in our generation will probably not know in this earthly life.

Of course, if Christians are right, Jesus might just be right around the corner, but He is sure taking a long time getting here. Maybe He got stuck in traffic or hung up in the clouds.

I believe that those of us who were believers and held certain beliefs will find out if those beliefs were true as soon as we pass from this world to the spiritual world, and if our beliefs were true we will be rewarded by God and for being faithful and steadfast in our beliefs and living according to them. I believe we will also reap our own rewards for believing the truth.

“He who shall accept and believe, shall receive his reward; and he who shall turn away, shall receive none other than his own punishment.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 339

I believe it will be another story for those who rejected a true belief in favor of a false one. As the quote above says, those people will receive their own punishment, they will get what they deserve, and I suspect it will be even worse if they realize they had been told of the true belief and they rejected it.

Those believers who rejected the true belief might be judged by God and/or they many regret what they lost in this life by rejecting the true belief. The Baha'i Writings are not clear on this.

I have also read some accounts of the afterlife wherein believers who held false beliefs will not realize they were wrong even in the afterlife, so they will continue believing and worshiping just as they did in this life. That won't be heaven, I an assure you of that.

 

[Trailblazer]

Hmm...I'm an optimist, without religion.
I have no idea if that makes me more or less deluded at this point.

No, you are not deluded, you are hopeful.
I think that is a good thing.

 

[Trailblazer]

I have my reasons to doubt Christianity, but Revelation makes it very clear that it is this Lamb that is the one returning.

If that is true, then the Lamb has to be the Bab or Baha'u'llah.

If Baha'i don't have anything solid, then the Lamb is Jesus and it is the Lamb that is returning... not The Bab or Baha'u'llah.

Baha'is have something very solid, we have Baha'u'llah.
By contrast, Christians don't have anything but a hope.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Something about a new world order that I oppose is that all throughout history power corrupts people. I wouldn't want America to conform to other nations simply because there is many rotten apples out there ruining things in this country.

A new world order could be the most dreadful, militant and corrupt order ever.

There seems to be an inherently warring nature to humanity. I'm pessimistic!

It could very well be that not thinking global is against the very remedy mankind needs. It may be unbridled Nationalism, that will be part of the final conflict we face before we will learn to get rid of all our arms, except what the internal police forces needs and what the international force needs to keep law and order.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If that is true, then the Lamb has to be the Bab or Baha'u'llah.

Baha'is have something very solid, we have Baha'u'llah.
By contrast, Christians don't have anything but a hope.

The Bab indeed offered His Life for the Glory of God Baha'u'llah and at the age of 30 it was taken so Baha'u'llah could offer the Most Great Peace.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

God has never changed his purpose for this earth and man’s place on it. (Isaiah 55:11)

The verse says; "11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it."

So since that verse, Jesus the Christ has come, Muhammad has come, the Bab has come and Baha'u'llah has come which is another way of saying God, "accomplish that which God pleased, and it prospered in the thing whereto God sent it". That passage does npot discount More Messengers, but supports God does as God wills.

Revelation 21:2-4 is a description of that outcome.
“2 I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

Jerusalem means 'Abode of Peace', thus God has given another 'New Jerusalem', a new abode of Peace. The issues I see in America, which reverberates around the world, is that humanity as a whole is yet to accept we are one people under One God.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Something about a new world order that I oppose is that all throughout history power corrupts people. I wouldn't want America to conform to other nations simply because there is many rotten apples out there ruining things in this country.

A new world order could be the most dreadful, militant and corrupt order ever.

There seems to be an inherently warring nature to humanity. I'm pessimistic!

Though you might like this from the 70's, shows you the vision of world unity has been working for some time. In this video Glen Campbell's joins up with Seals and Crofts who wrote this song inspired by the Baha'i Writings. Seals and Croft were Baha'is.

Enjoy, Regards Tony

 

[Deeje]

That leads me to ask if there is an unforgivable sin?. Or a sin too far?

There is only one sin that is unforgivable, according to the Bible.....to 'sin against the holy spirit'.

The type of sin mentioned in the Bible as being unforgivable is not simply a category such as stealing, lying or sexual immorality. These things are serious, however, and may involve unforgivable sin. (Rev. 21:8) But the unforgivable sin is deliberate sin against the manifest operation of God’s spirit. It springs from a heart that is thoroughly and forever alienated from God.

“Every sort of sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the spirit will not be forgiven. For example, whoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the holy spirit, it will not be forgiven him, no, not in the present system of things nor in that to come.” (Matthew 12:31-32)

This type of sin is related to what we read in Hebrews 10:26: “If we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left.” So there is a deliberateness or willfulness about this kind of sin. One callously sins, fully aware of the fact that he is going directly contrary to the operation of God’s spirit and His righteous laws. Furthermore, we all are sinful and need Christ’s ransom sacrifice to obtain forgiveness. But “there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left” for one who knows that and “who has trampled upon the Son of God and who has esteemed as of ordinary value the blood” he shed. That one “has outraged the spirit of undeserved kindness with contempt.” (Heb. 10:29) He will never repent and humbly seek God’s forgiveness for his sin and rejection of Christ’s ransom. He is beyond repentance.

The only person that I can think of who committed the unforgivable sin was Judas. He not only witness the operation of God's spirit but participated in acts of the holy spirit with the use of Jesus' name. What he did to Jesus was unforgivable.

If someone like Manasseh can be forgiven....then anyone can. (2 Kings 21:2-16; 2 Chronicles 33:12-13)

 

[Deeje]

Baha'is have something very solid, we have Baha'u'llah.
By contrast, Christians don't have anything but a hope.

I think we'll let God decide that.

 

[stvdv]

But until they do, nothing is going to get better any more. Find a way to heal from the disaster that is (hopefully soon "was") Trump, and maybe. But if not, your divisions will lead you to a long, slow disaster that you will deeply regret.

From the moment I first saw Trump (just before he became President), I got a strong feeling, he will give major trouble. I still feel the same.

On the other hand, even more troubling is, that so many Americans AND Christians AND others believe in his lies.

Someone lying can't be trusted. How can anyone trust D.Trump? I just don't get it.

 

[stvdv]

The article also quotes the talk directly: “The time has come for humanity to hoist the standard of the oneness of the human world, so that dogmatic formulas and superstitions may end.”

To see "Unity in Diversity" is the key needed now. Unity being "Love", accepting Diversity meaning "stop belittling others feelings/(non)faith".

introduced ‘Abdu'l-Bahá. In that talk He offered;
“Animals, despite the fact that they lack reason and understanding, do not make colors the cause of conflict. Why should man, who has reason, create conflict? This is wholly unworthy of him.”

Great quote, I love it.

Many talks were given on Race Unity and removal of predudices in America that year and reported in the news across the country, but the topic of this thread comes from this quote, from one of those talks;
“Until these prejudices are entirely removed from the people of the world,” he wrote, “the realm of humanity will not find rest. Nay, rather, discord and bloodshed will be increased day by day, and the foundation of the prosperity of the world of man will be destroyed.” “Now is the time for the Americans to take up this matter and unite both the white and colored races. Otherwise, hasten ye towards destruction! Hasten ye toward devastation!” “Indeed, there is a greater danger than only the shedding of blood. It is the destruction of America.”

Great quote also. And very much alive today. Takes more than 100 years to sink in, how valuable this "hint" was, and still is.

So that is the topic, I personally see the destruction of America is Anarchy, where it's unity in its diversity is destroyed by godless actions, which to me, the solutions were given in another talk offered in the same year.
“But there is a need for a superior power to overcome human prejudices, a power which nothing in the world of mankind can withstand and which will overshadow the effect of all other forces at work in human conditions. That irresistable power is the love of God. It is my hope and prayer that it may destroy the prejudice of this one point of distinction between you and unite you all permanently under its hallowed protection.” Talk at Hull House, Chicago

LOVE of God is good. Even "LOVE" (pure Love) would be good IMO (as in seeing the "unity" in the diversity). When LOVE is gone, all is gone.
Fear of SIN is also a good one. Or as my Master expressed it:
1) Love Alll, Serve All
2) Hurt Never, Help Ever

 

[Revoltingest]

I know that whites can be and have been the targets of racism, and that the media treats such instances differently. Neither of which I condone, obviously.

But where is this supposed rising wave of "white hate"?

This coverage itself is effectively (even if unintentionally) hatred of white folk.
But how could it not spark hatred in black folk?
And in particular, hatred of white cops.

 

[PruePhillip]

Any specific examples?

None come to mind. It's super prevalent in the humanities at American universities. "White
Anglo Saxon male" is quite pejorative (and racist and sexist.) The statistics on white and
black killings in America is an amazing example of how selective people are in their outrages.
Ask any liberal what race is to be condemned and they will only state one - whites. And the
examples they give include slavery, genocide, sexism etc.. Other races are worse when it comes
to war (Mongols killed 11% of all humanity) and slavery (Africans and Arabs were better at it) and
racism (outright removal or killing of their minorities .etc..)

 

[Father Heathen]

This coverage itself is effectively (even if unintentionally) hatred of white folk.

That's....quite the leap. How should it be covered differently?

But how could it not spark hatred in black folk?

Where I live and work, I meet and talk to a lot of black folk on a daily basis, and I never felt any animosity directed toward me based on my skin. Most of them, like most people in general, are sensible.

And in particular, hatred of white cops.

Or rather an understandable mistrust based on the police's track record