the devil speeks at UN

[kai]

Where exactly am I wrong? the Nazi nuclear capability,lucky for us the russians counter attacked,napoleon in the war of independece

America and the UK are not working towards a holistic world...open your eyes.Oh my eyes are wide open "holistic" what !

Greed and ambition thats what drives Tony and George and most politicians.Agreed

Sooner an alliance with France and Germany then slavery to the US...

france and Germany await your talents they have wanted us as slaves for centuries

 

[Ciscokid]

American forces alone during ww2 were not sufficent to destroy the Nazis, if you think so then dream on....no wonder the world hates america for its arrogance alone, despite never having won a war on its own, even in the war of Independance the US had military assistance from Napoleon.

Wars aren't like football games....there are often more than two combatants. Who ever said the US defeated the Nazi's alone?

 

[Simon Gnosis]

france and Germany await your talents they have wanted us as slaves for centuries

Did I say the Nazis had actually made a fission weapon or came 'close' to?
No...
Did the americans know at the time exactly how far the Nazis were from building a bomb or if one scientist might make a breakthrough suddenly?
No..
Without the hindsight of history could anyone have predicted how long it would have taken Hitler to nuke London or New York if not under pressure from both the Soviet and Allied invasions?
No..

I rest my case.

We are on equal terms with our European allies, not so with the USA.

 

[Simon Gnosis]

Wars aren't like football games....there are often more than two combatants. Who ever said the US defeated the Nazi's alone?

Shows what you know.

Many wars have been fought by two combatants, except America...

Britain fought Nazi Germany on her own for two years before the US intervened...

 

[Ciscokid]

Shows what you know.

Many wars have been fought by two combatants, except America...

Stunning response. Care to get a little deeper and actually address something significant?

 

[Simon Gnosis]

Stunning response. Care to get a little deeper and actually address something significant?

You want me to list examples?

Sorry I don't understand...

 

[kai]

Did I say the Nazis had actually made a fission weapon or came 'close' to?
No...
Did the americans know at the time exactly how far the Nazis were from building a bomb or if one scientist might make a breakthrough suddenly?
No..
Without the hindsight of history could anyone have predicted how long it would have taken Hitler to nuke London or New York without if not under pressure from both the Soviet and Allied invasions?
No..

I rest my case. what case, they are all questions not facts you are agreeing with yourself here.I ask for a dismissal , no case to answer your honour
We are on equal terms with our European allies, not so with the USA.

equal terms or their terms and that is our allies?

 

[Simon Gnosis]

equal terms or their terms and that is our allies?

Ahhhh...Kai

Tell me Kai...who owns makes and maintains the UK's nuclear deterrent?

 

[Simon Gnosis]

Ahhhh...Kai

Tell me Kai...who owns makes and maintains the UK's nuclear deterrent?

By the way when we discuss the Nazi nuclear capacity we discuss it knowing they had not yet succeeded in building a bomb, I never questioned that, however the actual stage of development is irrelevant at the time, as far as the US knew Hitler was attempting to build a fission weapon, therefore time became a factor..that is the point I am making...

 

[kai]

Ahhhh...Kai

Tell me Kai...who owns makes and maintains the UK's nuclear deterrent?

Not france or germany i hope
Any new British nuclear warheads would be built by the Atomic Weapons Establishment (AWE). Since 1950, the AWE has been responsible for the full life cycle of British nuclear warheads, from research and development through disassembly and disposal. British warheads have been designed at Aldermaston, a 750-acre site in Berkshire. Final assembly and disassembly takes place at Burghfield, a 225-acre site 7 miles to the east. [3] The Atomic Weapons Establishment Management Limited--a joint venture between Lockheed Martin, Serco Limited, and British Nuclear Fuels, Ltd.--has a 25-year contract with the Ministry of Defence to operate AWE that is due to expire in 2025.

 

[kai]

By the way when we discuss the Nazi nuclear capacity we discuss it knowing they had not yet succeeded in building a bomb, I never questioned that, however the actual stage of development is irrelevant at the time, as far as the US knew Hitler was attempting to build a fission weapon, therefore time became a factor..that is the point I am making...

Time a factor in what

 

[Simon Gnosis]

Not france or germany i hope
Any new British nuclear warheads would be built by the Atomic Weapons Establishment (AWE). Since 1950, the AWE has been responsible for the full life cycle of British nuclear warheads, from research and development through disassembly and disposal. British warheads have been designed at Aldermaston, a 750-acre site in Berkshire. Final assembly and disassembly takes place at Burghfield, a 225-acre site 7 miles to the east. [3] The Atomic Weapons Establishment Management Limited--a joint venture between Lockheed Martin, Serco Limited, and British Nuclear Fuels, Ltd.--has a 25-year contract with the Ministry of Defence to operate AWE that is due to expire in 2025.

Actually the US owns all of the UK's Trident missile warheads.
The UK also requires US permissions to deploy them.

 

[Simon Gnosis]

Time a factor in what

OMG

A factor as in how long the Allies had to invade Germany before Hitler built his bomb and consolidate his control of Europe..

 

[kateyes]

posted by simon gnosis:

American forces alone during ww2 were not sufficent to destroy the Nazis, if you think so then dream on....no wonder the world hates america for its arrogance alone, despite never having won a war on its own, even in the war of Independance the US had military assistance from Napoleon.

We dont want any alliance with the US either...go ahead and be unnilateral Mr Bush, but please leave and vacate all your US airbases in the UK.

Before you spend alot of time casting stones get your facts straight--Napoleon was 15 years old at the beginning of the American Revolution--and certainly not the head of France. The Marquise De Lafayette assisted in the Revolution as a private citizen and in no way as a representative of France. The US won the Revolution without foreign assistance. You can think what you choose about WWII--but I feel compelled to point out France, Belgium, Holland had all surrendered to Nazi Germany--the UK had lost a huge number of troups at Dunquerque--and although your pilots held off the German Air Force during the battle of Britain and the people of Britain soldiered through the Blitz---Britain did not take any offensive action against Germany until US Forces were brought in--in fact until the US set up the lend lease program Britain could not build ships, or tanks, or munitions enough to launch an offensive. Don't take my word about this--after all I am just an ignorant American--look up some of your own history.

There are currently 35 US air bases in the UK--they cover a total of 10 sq miles--these bases are the remnants of the air bases set up during WWII (as invited by the British Government). The Americans working on the bases live, and spend thier money in the UK. I lived in England during the late 1950's and early 60's--we lived in the village and bought everything in the village--I went to school in the village--we contributed to the economy of the village. You might find some people in the areas surrounding the current bases would be upset to loose the financial support that comes from the bases. I know Americans have a reputation for being arrogant and cocky-frankly I don't like some Americans either--but I surely get tired of all of us being branded--as know-it-all cowboys. I think you need to go back and see how many Americans died in Europe during WWII--after all the European War wasn't a threat to the United States--we were ASKED to participate. US military deaths in Europe were in the region of 500,000--the Great Britain total including civilian deaths during the Blitz was 388,000. So tell me were you going to win the war on your own? If you were why is it that more Americans died than Brits--its not like the Nazi's were really a threat to the US.

Least you think I am resting on my laurels for events of 50 years ago--think again. I know that some of the world looks on the US as some kind of a great bully---but there do still seem to be some countries looking to the US for guidance, support--and to keep the other bullies away. I wonder what the world would look like today if the US had followed the isolationist trend of the 1930's and just left everyone to win or loose thier own battles. I wonder what language would be spoken in France and the UK today--I wonder what the borders of the USSR would be today (I have no doubt it would still exist.)

 

[Simon Gnosis]

posted by simon gnosis:


Before you spend alot of time casting stones get your facts straight--Napoleon was 15 years old at the beginning of the American Revolution--and certainly not the head of France. The Marquise De Lafayette assisted in the Revolution as a private citizen and in no way as a representative of France. The US won the Revolution without foreign assistance. You can think what you choose about WWII--but I feel compelled to point out France, Belgium, Holland had all surrendered to Nazi Germany--the UK had lost a huge number of troups at Dunquerque--and although your pilots held off the German Air Force during the battle of Britain and the people of Britain soldiered through the Blitz---Britain did not take any offensive action against Germany until US Forces were brought in--in fact until the US set up the lend lease program Britain could not build ships, or tanks, or munitions enough to launch an offensive. Don't take my word about this--after all I am just an ignorant American--look up some of your own history.

There are currently 35 US air bases in the UK--they cover a total of 10 sq miles--these bases are the remnants of the air bases set up during WWII (as invited by the British Government). The Americans working on the bases live, and spend thier money in the UK. I lived in England during the late 1950's and early 60's--we lived in the village and bought everything in the village--I went to school in the village--we contributed to the economy of the village. You might find some people in the areas surrounding the current bases would be upset to loose the financial support that comes from the bases. I know Americans have a reputation for being arrogant and cocky-frankly I don't like some Americans either--but I surely get tired of all of us being branded--as know-it-all cowboys. I think you need to go back and see how many Americans died in Europe during WWII--after all the European War wasn't a threat to the United States--we were ASKED to participate. US military deaths in Europe were in the region of 500,000--the Great Britain total including civilian deaths during the Blitz was 388,000. So tell me were you going to win the war on your own? If you were why is it that more Americans died than Brits--its not like the Nazi's were really a threat to the US.

Least you think I am resting on my laurels for events of 50 years ago--think again. I know that some of the world looks on the US as some kind of a great bully---but there do still seem to be some countries looking to the US for guidance, support--and to keep the other bullies away. I wonder what the world would look like today if the US had followed the isolationist trend of the 1930's and just left everyone to win or loose thier own battles. I wonder what language would be spoken in France and the UK today--I wonder what the borders of the USSR would be today (I have no doubt it would still exist.)

LOL

Rubbish.

If Hitler had dominated Europe unchallenged and defeated the USSR, the US would have to fight a war perhaps on its own soil..something americans havent done since the civil war, a war they would lose.
I never said England could win against Germany on its own.
388,000 British civillians died in the Blitz, you forget the many more who died during the Allied invasion of occupied france not just British and American troops but Canadians as well.

I would rather speak German and bow before a hated conqueror then be a slave to your nation.

All I have to say to the US government is this..
We don't need you or want you...get out of my country.
One day we will remove you with force if necessary by order of our democratic government...

 

[Simon Gnosis]

LOL

Rubbish.

If Hitler had dominated Europe unchallenged and defeated the USSR, the US would have to fight a war perhaps on its own soil..something americans havent done since the civil war, a war they would lose.
I never said England could win against Germany on its own.
388,000 British civillians died in the Blitz, you forget the many more who died during the Allied invasion of occupied france not just British and American troops but Canadians as well.

I would rather speak German and bow before a hated conqueror then be a slave to your nation.

All I have to say to the US government is this..
We don't need you or want you...get out of my country.

Incidently america did recieve help from the french to fight off the british..dont even know your own history..how can you know mine?

 

[Ciscokid]

You want me to list examples?

Sorry I don't understand...

Examples of what? Wars that were fought with only two countries in the mix? No that's useless. You make it sound like America is afraid to go into a war unless it has allies all around her.

There aren't too many countries that would want to face America mono y mono.

 

[Simon Gnosis]

Examples of what? Wars that were fought with only two countries in the mix? No that's useless. You make it sound like America is afraid to go into a war unless it has allies all around her.

There aren't too many countries that would want to face America mono y mono.

You guys tend to carpet bomb everything before you deploy troops.
Without air support you are nothing, without your nukes you are weak.
We dont fear your nation, no one fears your troops, just your bombs..

Hopefully when Europe galvanises and embraces full unity, perhaps with Russia too, then we can provide you with some opposition...

 

[Ciscokid]

You guys tend to carpet bomb everything before you deploy troops.

Carpet bombing is not as popular as it was in the 60's. We have laser guided bombs now.

Without air support you are nothing, without your nukes you are weak.

Mike Tyson, without his fists is a lousy fighter...what's your point.

We dont fear your nation, no one fears your troops, just your bombs..

Hopefully when Europe galvanises and embraces full unity, perhaps with Russia too, then we can provide you with some opposition...

I'm not sure who "we" is. I don't think most Europeans think as you do.

 

[Ciscokid]

If any nation attacked any country in Europe, the US would be on them like white on rice. We [the US] may make mistakes and **** people off, but we'll protect our allies.