The dishonest use of the name "Christian"

[ForeverFaithful]

I find it silly too. It's the twisted love child of special pleading and no true Scotsman. "All language is defined by common usage except this one word, which coincidentally happens to belong exclusively to me and people exactly like me."

Unbelievers don't have any right to twist the meanings of word that belong to Christians, Christians don't have a right to change the meaning of Muslim or Jew, I really don't care what the world says about this I stand with the Church

 

[waitasec]

Unbelievers don't have any right to twist the meanings of word that belong to Christians, Christians don't have a right to change the meaning of Muslim or Jew, I really don't care what the world says about this I stand with the Church

as the church evolves ...

 

[Nakosis]

Unbelievers don't have any right to twist the meanings of word that belong to Christians, Christians don't have a right to change the meaning of Muslim or Jew, I really don't care what the world says about this I stand with the Church

Which church? Heck I'd like the stand with the Gnostic church myself. They have their meanings and understanding that I sort of like. That's no guarantee they got it right.

Jew, Muslims and Christians are not consistent with their understanding. Stand with whoever you want but that's no guarantee of being right.

You got to do what is right for you, no problem. But I've got to do what is right for me.

 

[Alceste]

Unbelievers don't have any right to twist the meanings of word that belong to Christians, Christians don't have a right to change the meaning of Muslim or Jew, I really don't care what the world says about this I stand with the Church

Again, I assume that by "THE Church" you must mean YOUR church. Again, there are quite a few Christian churches out there that are not Catholic. What are you, the custodian of the word Christian, going to do about that? How will will you exercise your "right" to deny them the use of the word? You're not allowed to torture and kill them any more, FYI. That leaves complaining, basically. Not a very admirable personal quality.

 

[Scuba Pete]

For one,

So, you are hung up on sex. Most legalists are!

You are saying that all things are allowed and no rules should be followed as long as there's love.

That's what the scriptures teach.

The problem with legalists is that they don't understand or experience the power of the Spirit. Sure, with men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.

 

[InChrist]

The biblical scriptures define who a true Christian is, not a church organization, denomination, or a person’s imagination. Jesus said one must be born again to enter the kingdom of God. The presence of born-again believers crosses denominational lines. All true Christians down through the centuries have agreed upon the basic foundational and essential truths of scripture, although they may differ on other various, non-essential issues. A lot of people claim the title “Christian”, but don’t know, trust, or belong to Jesus Christ at all, nor submit their lives to His Word.


A Theological Test

Do you know your doctrine? If you are interested, you can take a little theological test. Following are 20 basic Christian Doctrine questions. All you need to do is write down the answers to the questions, and when you are done, click on the Answers Page at the end of this test and find out how you did. Of course, there are a lot more questions that could be asked, but these will serve as a sample.
Also, some of the questions deal with essential doctrines. In other words, if you deny them, then you are not a Christian. Do you know which ones are essentials?
A Theological Test | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

 

[Alceste]

The biblical scriptures define who a true Christian is, not a church organization, denomination, or a person’s imagination. Jesus said one must be born again to enter the kingdom of God. The presence of born-again believers crosses denominational lines. All true Christians down through the centuries have agreed upon the basic foundational and essential truths of scripture, although they may differ on other various, non-essential issues. A lot of people claim the title “Christian”, but don’t know, trust, or belong to Jesus Christ at all, nor submit their lives to His Word.


A Theological Test

Do you know your doctrine? If you are interested, you can take a little theological test. Following are 20 basic Christian Doctrine questions. All you need to do is write down the answers to the questions, and when you are done, click on the Answers Page at the end of this test and find out how you did. Of course, there are a lot more questions that could be asked, but these will serve as a sample.
Also, some of the questions deal with essential doctrines. In other words, if you deny them, then you are not a Christian. Do you know which ones are essentials?
A Theological Test | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

I think a cage match is in order: You and ForeverFaithful, each claiming the exclusive right to decide who is or is not a Christian. Only one can emerge victorious! Fight to the death? NO! To the pain!

[youtube]IoSHmVkjmuA[/youtube]
The Princess Bride-Dear God What IS That Thing - YouTube

 

[Me Myself]

Unbelievers don't have any right to twist the meanings of word that belong to Christians, Christians don't have a right to change the meaning of Muslim or Jew, I really don't care what the world says about this I stand with the Church

No on is changing the meaning. They are expanding it.

It´s as if you said no one has the right to name their son the same way your´s is named.

 

[InChrist]

I think a cage match is in order: You and ForeverFaithful, each claiming the exclusive right to decide who is or is not a Christian. Only one can emerge victorious! Fight to the death? NO! To the pain!

I don't think ForeverFaithful and I would disagree on the essentials of the faith.

 

[McBell]

Unbelievers don't have any right to twist the meanings of word that belong to Christians, Christians don't have a right to change the meaning of Muslim or Jew, I really don't care what the world says about this I stand with the Church

:biglaugh:
You think that "Christians" own the word 'Christian'?

Makes sense why so many Christians think that Christians own the word "marriage" as well....


Ah, gotta love the arrogant egos of some people.
If for nothing other than the entertainment factor.

 

[Shermana]

Unbelievers don't have any right to twist the meanings of word that belong to Christians, Christians don't have a right to change the meaning of Muslim or Jew, I really don't care what the world says about this I stand with the Church

Since when did the word belong to Christians and which Christians does it belong to? Why does it not belong to Mormons? Why does it not belong to Messianic Jews since they were the first Church?

Do you even know what Catholic means?

Who cares who calls themselves Christians now, the Church created and defined the term in the first centuries AD and it can not be changed.

I assume by Catholic you mean Roman, can you please show me where I said all Christians are Romans?

Please prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the 33 A.D. Petrine Church at Antioch followed the same Pauline creeds as the orthodox Church of the 2nd century and wasn't purely a sect of Messianic Jews.

 

[Shermana]

So, you are hung up on sex. Most legalists are!

OKay at this point I get the impression you're intentionally looking to weasel out of the actual specifics. That's why you snipped the rest of my quote. It's okay, you can just admit that you don't want to answer and at least look somewhat more honorable.

That's what the scriptures teach.

In your extreme reductionist interpretation which snips out vast swaths of what it actually says and goes by extreme cherry picked selections that are all out of context.

The problem with legalists is that they don't understand or experience the power of the Spirit. Sure, with men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.[

So only people who don't believe in actually obeying the commandments that Jesus says to keep are those who experience the Spirit?

I'd recommend that you avoid making bold assertions about the Spirit in such a matter but I have a feeling with you it may be too late....It truly is sad when people resort to speaking false and blasphemous things about the Spirit when their arguments get shot down, truly sad indeed.

 

[Me Myself]

Do you even know what Catholic means

It means that you believe that your very specific interpretation of the scriptures is the only right one. Then again, that doesn´t make much of a difference.

By the way, I would love to see where did the people in Paul´s letters Prayed to Mary or any "saint".

Still haven´t found the quote where Jesus asks for worship? Cause again, I give you for ever, but I´ll be asking frecuently

 

[Shermana]

The biblical scriptures define who a true Christian is, not a church organization, denomination, or a person’s imagination.

Nowhere does the Scripture say "This is a Christian". By this logic, a "True Christian" must obey all the teachings and commandments Jesus makes if you say the NT defines what a "Christian is". Otherwise, it's quite clear that the first time the word "Christian" is used is for the purely Messianic Jewish Torah obedient sect under Peter's authority, before Paul really entered the picture and preached anything to oppose Peter.

Jesus said one must be born again to enter the kingdom of God. The presence of born-again believers crosses denominational lines.

The word is actually "Born from above" . Now how does one determine who is truly born from above and who is not? Clearly the epistles are filled with references to false believers. Do you believe that those who follow "orthodox" creeds are those who are truly born from above? What does it imply about those who are born from above? Doesn't it kind of say that they don't sin anymore? What is sin? "Lawlessness." (1 John 3:4)

All true Christians down through the centuries have agreed upon the basic foundational and essential truths of scripture,

Which scripture? Was Clement not a true Christian? Was Iraneus not a True Christian? Clement had some very Jewish beliefs, he said shaving was an abomination. Paul said that those who unrepentantly fornicate won't enter the Kingdom. Tertullian and Cyrus of Jerusalem carry totally different messages. James carries a totally different message. Origen was cast off as a heretic for some of his beliefs, some of which I agree with and think are right. Such a reply demonstrates lack of knowledge on the differences in the details on these "basic foundational and essential truths". Which scripture? They all had different books. Iraneus included Shepherd of Hermas, which was canonical to the Septuagint at the time. Do you mean the official Roman canon that wasn't universally agreed on until the "orthodox church" decided to make it official?

although they may differ on other various, non-essential issues. A lot of people claim the title “Christian”, but don’t know, trust, or belong to Jesus Christ at all, nor submit their lives to His Word.

That would be almost all "Christians" in my opinion, especially those who are so adamantly anti-works and try to redefine what Christ as Jewish Messiah meant or go to lengths to say that one need not actually obey his teachings as long as they "believe on him".

A Theological Test

Whose Theology?

Do you know your doctrine? If you are interested, you can take a little theological test. Following are 20 basic Christian Doctrine questions.

20 basic orthodox Christian doctrines?

All you need to do is write down the answers to the questions, and when you are done, click on the Answers Page at the end of this test and find out how you did. Of course, there are a lot more questions that could be asked, but these will serve as a sample.
Also, some of the questions deal with essential doctrines. In other words, if you deny them, then you are not a Christian. Do you know which ones are essentials?
A Theological Test | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

[/quote]

Ah, so you mean you are "Not a Christian" according to the post-2nd century traditional orthodox teachings? Not like CARM is a purely propoaganda site or anything that blatantly lies and distorts grammatical and Theological definitions.

Sometimes I think I go too harsh on "Christians" in calling out their hypocrisy and ignorance of history and scripture and what Jesus actually says, but when I see things like this I think I don't get harsh enough.

 

[Alceste]

I don't think ForeverFaithful and I would disagree on the essentials of the faith.

If you're not Catholic, you might be surprised. Also, Catholics are not "born again", as far as I know, so you've already disagreed. Come on, get your gloves!

 

[Shermana]

Have Catholics not been teaching Protestants burn in hell for centuries now? When did this change?

"The Catholic Church alone is keeping the true worship. This is the font of truth, this is the house of faith, this is the temple of God; if any man enter not here, or if any man go forth from it, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation" - Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos

"Outside of the Church, nobody can hope for life or salvation unless he is excused through ignorance beyond his control." - Pope Pius IX, Singulari Quidem

"The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the "eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41), unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church." - 11th Session of the Council of Florence, under Pope Eugene IV

I think the Popes were quite clear on this matter. I don't think the "ignorance beyond their control" defense would work in most cases especially in the internet age.

 

[Scuba Pete]

OKay at this point I get the impression you're intentionally looking to weasel out of the actual specifics. That's why you snipped the rest of my quote. It's okay, you can just admit that you don't want to answer and at least look somewhat more honorable.

Dude... get over yourself. Not all drivel deserves a direct answer. I pick and choose what I am going to respond to because I have a life and commitments. In right now, I am finishing up packing to go to Cozumel tomorrow. It's my work. It's what I do to survive and I love it. I'll be sure not to give this much of a second thought as I seek out elusive toadfish, octopi and seahorses with 80 of my closest friends. TTFN!

 

[Shermana]

Hmmm, your excuse about time commitments would work if it didn't take less than 10 seconds to reply to such a key, critical part of the argument....

Why don't you just do the honorable thing and say "No I don't want to answer your key, critical question that shoots down my argument like an S-300 SAM".

 

[paarsurrey]

Mary was definitely a Christian, as throughout the book of acts she is with the apostles

Jesus meant He was the actual begotten Son (gentium non factem) of the Father through who all things were made and is coeternal with the Father and the Holy Spirit . (John 1)

Mary was not with them; she had migrated with his son Jesus toward India after the the event of crucifixion; they started their journey from Galilee; it is in their absence that Paul founded his religion "Christianity" using Jesus title unauthorized; it is a misnomer, in my opinion.

 

[paarsurrey]

Half these scholars probably believe that the Old Testament is just as much a forgery, what proof do you have that any of them are right?

Intresting website, here's what I found on it

OT and NT do have some Word of Revelation in them; but it is in a very dilute form; mostly it is stories; but one could still get guidance from them; with much effort, however.