Oh pish tosh! Never heard that one before, I like it... Pish Tosh
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The earth is 13,000 years old and it is soon to be renewed when Christ comes
- Thread starter FFH
- Start date
FFH
Veteran Member
There are "worlds without end" according to inspired LDS (Mormon) scripture, patterned after this one, with people like us living on them, made/created like us, in the image of God.
The pattern is the same, in each universe, "worlds without end".
DarkSun
:eltiT
Maybe because it was His intention all along for us to "eat the forbidden fruit", and become a conscious race thereafter. We became aware of our own mortality from that point onward, we can overcome instinct; and we even came to question our own existence. This is something that no other animal can do.
Perhaps God wanted us to have Free Will, so that we wouldn't be His slaves for all of time. Most suffering occurs because people or things choose to create it of their own Free Will. When someone is stricken by a disease and had no choice in the matter, they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. God could have cured them, but in the scheme of things, does it really matter if He didn't? Even if it is painful for those left behind, death really isn't that big a deal when most people go to heaven eventually.
That being said, I think this thread has gone way off-topic...
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
So is this what we have now brought this thread to...?
You put a lot of stock in the books written by the hands of men and inspired by no more than their lack of understanding and their desire to control those who'd follow them.
The bible is no history book, no math book, no book on geology and certainly no science book.
The BoM is another one of those books whose credibility is in more question than the bible. It's portrayal of a people migrating from halfway around the world to settle in either New York or South America (Depending on which mormon or mormon literature you read) is very sketchy at best and considering there is no archeological/scientific data to backup this claim. The names mention in the book leaves a blank stair on archelogist when asked. No archeologist outside of mormon has ever, that I know of, backed up ANY of the claims made by that book.
So you can do us all a favor, especially for those here who are not of your faith and have no plans to be of your faith, and stop with the quotes from scripture. It does nothing but hurt your argument.
Try sticking with the so-called facts you have on a scientific level to prove your point because I starting to notice a pattern of my own. When people like you fail to prove your claims you undoubtedby turn to your scriptures to try and convince the rest of us who could careless about those fairytales.
So can you tell us what mainstream unbiased scientist actually agrees with the claim you've made that the earth is 13,000 years old? What scientific methods did they use and has their claim been agreed upon by others in their field?
I want to remind you once more that the bible is of no help, given its description of certain animals, insects etc. Additionally, Genesis is even a bigger flawed process to use to descibe creation and it fails to show any coralation between man and dinosaurs.
FFH
Veteran Member
Physical
Resurrected beings could, yes.
DallasApple
Depends Upon My Mood..
I think the earth is an infant.And that is the minds of us.
Love
Dallas
Love
Dallas
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
It appears my request has fallen on def ears. Is this thread now over or has it crept up somewhere else by the same or another YEC?
herushura
Active Member
The Age of Aquarius, begings in 2160, so there plenty of time to wait.
666 - 6x6x6 = 216 (0) no "0" in greek.
The beast = Zodiac, cirlce of animals/beast
The Man -Aquarius
4 living creatures, 4 seasons.
The 7 bowls of wraths are the bowls that aquarius (who holds a bowl), will pour on.
The first creation account Genesis, the 7 day parrel, is the fortold accout of the age of Taurus,
adam=earth the element of the bull whom plows the earth. thus creating life from the earth.
Jesus the Fisherman is the sign of pisces, which were still in today
666 - 6x6x6 = 216 (0) no "0" in greek.
The beast = Zodiac, cirlce of animals/beast
The Man -Aquarius
4 living creatures, 4 seasons.
The 7 bowls of wraths are the bowls that aquarius (who holds a bowl), will pour on.
The first creation account Genesis, the 7 day parrel, is the fortold accout of the age of Taurus,
adam=earth the element of the bull whom plows the earth. thus creating life from the earth.
Jesus the Fisherman is the sign of pisces, which were still in today
McBell
Unbound
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
McBell
Unbound
LOLWell I'm glad you tackled that one because I didn't know what he was saying.....
I have no idea what he is saying.
I do know that his math, as presented, is flat out wrong.
And it matters not that the Greeks had no zero, though that is yet another issue I have with his post.
I shall wait to see if he will return to discuss or if he has disappeared.
FFH
Veteran Member
Niagra Falls has been eroding the canyon wall (flowing) for about 12,000 years, according to geologists.Penguin said:
To say that the earth has been through several ice ages would still not explain the short 12,000 year erosion time span of the Niagra river canyon wall. The earth is proposed to be millions or billions of years old by evolutionists, if that were the case, then for millions or billions of years the earth had to have been frozen for all of that time, minus a total of 12,000 years.
The Niagara River is a connecting channel between two Great Lakes, Erie and Ontario.
According to park geologists, Niagara Falls has moved back 7 miles in 12,500 years from the canyon rim where it started eroding
Source
There is a rim from which the river began eroding from, in which many believe is an indication of the starting point of creation, when the river began eroding the rim until the present day...
This be an accurate way to date the earth, but many will say "no way, it's just the result of a 40 million year old glacier, which started to melt 12,500 years go".
The oldest living plant should fit within the 7,000 year creation model and within my 13,000 year old proposed age of the earth.
According to the Biblical time frame, that I've layed out, the first plants and trees were created, and started to grow, baginning in the year 9,000 BC/11,000 years ago...
The King Clone creosote bush is 11,700 years old, according to Jim Cormett, curator of the Palm Springs Desert Museum and is possibly the oldest living thing on earth, discovered in the Mojave desert, Palm Springs, California.
First 1,000 year period of creation starts 11,000 BC/13,000 years ago
Earth was without form and void
Water was upon the whole face of the earth
Light created
Second 1,000 year period starts 10,000 BC/12,000 years ago
Firmament/heavens/skies created
Waters divided between earth and the firmament/heavens/skies
Third 1,000 year period starts 9,000 BC/11,000 years ago
Land and waters divided
Dry land appears and seas form
Plants and trees of all kinds created
The World's Oldest Living Thing
King Clone Creosote Bush 9,700 BC/11,700 years old
The Oldest Germinated Seed approximately 10,000 years old
Fourth 1,000 year period starts 8,000 BC/10,000 years ago
Sun, moon and stars created
Day and night begins
Fifth 1,000 year period starts 7,000 BC/9,000 years ago
All creatures of the sea and skies created
Sixth 1,000 year period starts 6,000 BC/8,000 years ago
All creatures of the land created
Adam and Eve created
Seventh 1,000 year period starts 5,000 BC/7,000 years ago
God rested from all his labors
Adam and Eve commanded not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil
4,004 BC/6,000 years ago
Time of the fall
2,800 BC/ 4,800 years old
Oldest Living Tree (Bristlecone Pine)
The oldest Bristlecones are found at elevations of 10,000 or 11,000 feet
2,304 BC/ 4,300 years ago
Time of flood
See this page: Date of the flood
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FFH
Veteran Member
Another amazing time piece we have is the Dead Sea...
According to Genesis, the waters were divided on the second day, which would have been 12,000 years ago.
The rivers would have started flowing at that time...between 12,000 and 11,000 years ago, during the second day of creation. 13,000 to 12,000 being the first day of creation...
Same time period Niagra Falls started eroding...
The Dead Sea
The Dead Sea in Israel receives fresh water from the Sea of Galilee via the Jordan River. The Dead Sea has a very high salt content and it continues to become saltier, because it has no outlet, other than evaporation.
Scientists have measured the amount of salt added each year by the Jordan River; and they have also calculated the amount of salt in the Dead Sea. From these numbers, scientists can calculate how long this process has been going on.
Assuming a constant rate of salt/water flow, and a zero salt level, at the beginning, the age of the Dead Sea has been estimated to be 12,000 years old.
Yaacov K. Benter arrived at this figure of 12,000 years.
See Scientific American Oct. 1983, p. 103
Also...
Natural History Magazine | Feature
[SIZE=-1]"With the waning of the Ice Age some 12000 years ago, hunter-gatherers living in the Dead Sea rift zone made some crucial innovations in the collecting of ..."[/SIZE]
Interesting they put the last "ice box" thaw out at "some 12,000 years ago". They just freeze the earth so theories like mine can be "supposedly" discredited.
There's no evidence of the earth freezing over. Show me the ice !!!
Most scientists do not believe in God or the Bible as an historical document of the earth's history, and many Christians (LDS included), doubt the authenticity of the Bible as an accurate historical record...
There is no account of an ICE AGE in the Bible, only a world wide flood, which made the earth appear older than it really is.
According to Genesis, the waters were divided on the second day, which would have been 12,000 years ago.
The rivers would have started flowing at that time...between 12,000 and 11,000 years ago, during the second day of creation. 13,000 to 12,000 being the first day of creation...
Same time period Niagra Falls started eroding...
The Dead Sea
The Dead Sea in Israel receives fresh water from the Sea of Galilee via the Jordan River. The Dead Sea has a very high salt content and it continues to become saltier, because it has no outlet, other than evaporation.
Scientists have measured the amount of salt added each year by the Jordan River; and they have also calculated the amount of salt in the Dead Sea. From these numbers, scientists can calculate how long this process has been going on.
Assuming a constant rate of salt/water flow, and a zero salt level, at the beginning, the age of the Dead Sea has been estimated to be 12,000 years old.
Yaacov K. Benter arrived at this figure of 12,000 years.
See Scientific American Oct. 1983, p. 103
Also...
Natural History Magazine | Feature
[SIZE=-1]"With the waning of the Ice Age some 12000 years ago, hunter-gatherers living in the Dead Sea rift zone made some crucial innovations in the collecting of ..."[/SIZE]
Interesting they put the last "ice box" thaw out at "some 12,000 years ago". They just freeze the earth so theories like mine can be "supposedly" discredited.
There's no evidence of the earth freezing over. Show me the ice !!!
Most scientists do not believe in God or the Bible as an historical document of the earth's history, and many Christians (LDS included), doubt the authenticity of the Bible as an accurate historical record...
There is no account of an ICE AGE in the Bible, only a world wide flood, which made the earth appear older than it really is.
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FFH
Veteran Member
Because people like Penguin keep repeating the same question.
FFH
Veteran Member
Where are all the people (bones) that would appear in the earth, as a result of a million or billion year old earth ????
World Population Since Creation
World Population Since Creation
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Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
I take issue with your Niagara ("proof") if you will because like all YECers they only take a portion from what's out there to try and prove their position.
OK...FINE...you went to that website and did a cut and paste job of the information that, on the surface......no pund intended, appears to agree with your assertion...especially when you throw in your biblical references.
BUT.............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You've committed one of the greatest mistakes that ALL YECers do and that is FAIL to read or cite ALL of their source. Here....I'll do it for you......since you only like to pick and choose.......
Your Source You Provided
How Old is the Falls?
"The Niagara River does not start small, have many tributaries, and end big like most rivers; nor does it have a typical V-shaped valley, but rather a post-glacial incised valley; this has to do with its Ice Age history.
The Niagara River and the entire Great Lakes Basin of which it is a part, is a legacy of the last Ice Age. 18,000 years ago, southern Ontario was covered by ice sheets 2-3 kilometers thick. As the ice sheets advanced southward they gouged out the basins of the Great Lakes. Then as they melted northward for the last time they released vast quantities of meltwater into these basins. Our water is "fossil water"; less than one percent of it is renewable on an annual basis, the rest leftover from the ice sheets.
The Niagara Peninsula became free of the ice about 12,500 years ago. As the ice retreated northward, its meltwaters began to flow down through what became Lake Erie, the Niagara River and Lake Ontario, down to the St. Lawrence River and on to the Atlantic Ocean. There were originally 5 spillways from Lake Erie to Lake Ontario. Eventually these were reduced to one, the original Niagara Falls, at the escarpment at Queenston-Lewiston. From here the Falls began its steady erosion through the bedrock."
Look, this is no trick on my part. This is the same article you provided. The data above already EXCEEDS the assertion of the earth only being 12,000 years old. I suspect you don't understand geology and only want to keep promoting your book of fantacy.
NOW...do you know why I said to not even use those books but yet...what did you do? you went straight for scripture as I said you would. Your Niagara Falls argument has FAILED....
Again....As far as plants go...Go back and RE-READ the articles about plants and fossils in that link you provided. It has this to say;
Plant Site you originally Provided
" Another massive and very ancient plant clone in North America is the huckleberry (Gaylussacia brachycera), a member of the heath family (Ericaceae). According to the Tasmania Parks and Wildlife Service (1997), a rare and endangered shrub of the protea family (Proteaceae) called King's Holly (Lomatia tasmanica) may be the oldest plant clone in the world. The plants appear to be sterile triploids incapable of producing viable seeds. The clonal thickets reproduce vegetatively by root suckering and have been estimated to be at least 43,000 years old. Fossil leaves found in a late Pleistocene deposit may be genetically identical to present-day plants.
"The seed capsules of devil's claws are clearly adapted for hitchhiking on the hooves of large grazing animals; however, with the exception of introduced livestock and people (and possibly desert bighorn sheep), there are few native North American animals living within the present range of devil's claws that are capable of dispersing these large hitchhikers. It is possible that the range of some large North American grazers, such as antelope, bison, deer and elk once overlapped the range of devil's claws thousands of years ago. It is also possible that devil's claw dispersal by grazing mammals may be a North and South American anachronism, or an occurrence that is out of its proper time in history. During the past one million years of the Pleistocene Epoch, the Americas were rich in large mammals (such as giant ground sloths) which are now extinct. Assuming devil's claw plants existed over 600,000 years ago, were some of these ancient mammals the true carriers of these hitchhiker pods? A similar anachronism occurs in the New World tropics of Central and South America, where the natural dispersal agent for some large seed pods are unknown."
Do you see that estimate? 43,000 years old. This almost quadruples your young earth estimate. Take note of them making an assumption of a plant being 600,000 years old. This is from the site which you have posted as a proof for your claim? What you have done is what is known as "Quote Mining".
And as far as the questions I "keep" asking...you never really answered them. You haven't told me which mainstream archeologist/scientist agree with your assertion of the earth being 13,000 years old. You've given me links that appear to refute your own claims.
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