The Earth Is a Few Thousand Years Old

[Breathe]

You might check this out:

And this includes the general population, including those who are religious but don't think about it, and there is generally a smaller population base than religious people.

Sorry, but I don't really care for atheist ego-masturbation material.

 

[metis]

And this includes the general population, including those who are religious but don't think about it, and there is generally a smaller population base than religious people.

Sorry, but I don't really care for atheist ego-masturbation material.

Sorry, but it appears you have no interest in reality. When scientific studies are done, such as what I posted, they take all sorts of variable into consideration. But then it doesn't appear you have any interest in science.

BTW, I am not an atheist, so your last line makes about as much "sense" as your other positions. So, when you decide to actually try and be objective in any way, please let us know, OK?

 

[Breathe]

Sorry, but it appears you have no interest in reality. When scientific studies are done, such as what I posted, they take all sorts of variable into consideration.

People say the same about blacks, the poor, women and IQ.
But if you must see:
Are atheists smarter than believers? Not exactly. | Religion News Service

But then it doesn't appear you have any interest in science.

Science, yes. I'm big on science.
"Meta-studies" where we only have a few excerpts being splashed around the internet by people who have generally not read the studies in question, and is still being used as a masturbation aid so the irreligious can feel better about themselves and congratulate one-another about how intelligent and enlightened they are, and to be able to look down their nose at people, especially with something that many people criticise as being unable to actually, accurately determine intelligence when it suits them but swearing by it when it does?
Yeah, I'm not really interested in that.

BTW, I am not an atheist, so your last line makes about as much "sense" as your other positions. So, when you decide to actually try and be objective in any way, please let us know, OK?

So, don't respond to me.

When everything I've discussed has been ignored and I've had the equivalent of "hurr you're dick and I'm smart, I don't even have to respond to any of your points" as a response, I don't feel you have any right to mention being objective.

I'm here to discuss other people's religions and beliefs about God and the world and so on, and to learn. "Lol God doesn't exist and you're a moron" is a view that doesn't really offer anything constructive, so why should I further waste my time with it?

 

[Enai de a lukal]

I have never heard anyone make this argument. I think it's a straw man. In other words, I think it is something made up by those who are against theism or don’t agree with organized religion.

So I would like for anyone to provide arguments as to where they herd it or think religious people think this, because it doesn’t seem to represent the majority of religious beliefs, and if this claim is true then it represents a small minority of people. So I would like to know what that religion is.

In other words, provide the religion or group of people that think the earth is only a few hundred years old and how they came to that conclusion. Also provide statistical data to back up those claims, including the percentage of religious people amongst current religions.

As a side note: No I will not further explain myself if you had a hard time understanding it the first time.

"Young Earth creationism (YEC) is the religious belief[1] that the Universe, Earth and all life on Earth were created by direct acts of the Abrahamic God during a relatively short period, between 5,700 and 10,000 years ago"

Young Earth creationism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not really a strawman, as there certainly are people who claim this. However, young-earth creationists make up a relatively small minority worldwide, although this number is fairly scewed in the US where it is much more prominent- I also suspect that this disproportionate (not to mention highly vocal) representation in the US is what gives many people (who live in the US) the impression that YEC is far more prevalent than it actually is. For the most part, they're no more than an obnoxious fringe movement of religious crackpots that get more attention than they deserve- although in the southern US, where they've managed to get school districts to include their religious material in science curricula, there is certainly a real problem.

 

[Enai de a lukal]

Indeed there is, and anti-theists are not helping by making the issue God OR science.

Hmm... the "anti-theists" are making the issue "God or science"? Because they're the ones who, you know, are inserting God into the conversation into the first place? Oh wait, that's creationism.

 

[Breathe]

Hmm... the "anti-theists" are making the issue "God or science"?

Yep.

Because they're the ones who, you know, are inserting God into the conversation into the first place? Oh wait, that's creationism.

Creationists and anti-theists are bedfellows and rely on each other.

Creationists will say science is wrong.
Anti-theists will say science disproves God.

It ain't hard.

 

[Enai de a lukal]

Yep.

I get it; this is story time, eh? You do have a pretty good imagination.

Creationists and anti-theists are bedfellows and rely on each other.

Creationists will say science is wrong.
Anti-theists will say science disproves God.

It ain't hard.

Nah. "Anti-theists" will say science disproves creationism. Glad we got that cleared up.

 

[Breathe]

Nah. "Anti-theists" will say science disproves creationism.

Nah, there's nothing anti-theistic about saying science disproves creationism. Anyone who has a grasp on science and evolution knows this, theist or not.

Many anti-theists go one step further.

Glad we got that cleared up.

As am I. Hope I helped.

 

[Enai de a lukal]

Nah, there's nothing anti-theistic about saying science disproves creationism. Anyone who has a grasp on science and evolution knows this, theist or not.

Many anti-theists go one step further.

"Many" as in, what, 3? What's your evidence for this? Anything? No one I've ever met, including all the folks who self identify as atheists and/or anti-theists, claims as much. And this certainly has no part in the debate between creationism and evolution.

Or is it maybe that anyone who doesn't make such a silly and naive claim not qualify as an "anti-theist" in your book? (BTW: there's a name for this tactic)

 

[Breathe]

"Many" as in, what, 3?

If only. Unfortunately, many more. That's the depressing part.

What's your evidence for this? Anything?

Experience.

No one I've ever met, including all the folks who self identify as atheists and/or anti-theists, claims as much. And this certainly has no part in the debate between creationism and evolution.

Personal incredulity. " I can't imagine it, s- so it can't be true. B- Breathe is just a big meanie. :''("

Or is it maybe that anyone who doesn't make such a silly and naive claim not qualify as an "anti-theist" in your book?

Nope. I'm quite sparse with the term.

(BTW: there's a name for this tactic)

And you're doing it, not I.

Look, bro, I'm just wasting my time with you.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Look, bro, I'm just wasting my time with you.

The irony is so rich, it just has to be fattening.

 

[metis]

When everything I've discussed has been ignored and I've had the equivalent of "hurr you're dick and I'm smart, I don't even have to respond to any of your points" as a response, I don't feel you have any right to mention being objective.

I'm here to discuss other people's religions and beliefs about God and the world and so on, and to learn. "Lol God doesn't exist and you're a moron" is a view that doesn't really offer anything constructive, so why should I further waste my time with it?

And now you really have shown your colors as I never stated nor implied any of the above.

 

[Breathe]

The irony is so rich, it just has to be fattening.

Careful you don't cut yourself on those edges, there, bro.

And now you really have shown your colors as I never stated nor implied any of the above.

Ha. Sure you didn't.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Careful you don't cut yourself on those edges, there, bro.

Careful you don't offer any cogent, clear, or consistent viewpoints based on anything other than highly-biased conjecture.

Nevermind, no worry of that happening.

 

[freethinker44]

Yep.

Creationists and anti-theists are bedfellows and rely on each other.

Creationists will say science is wrong.
Anti-theists will say science disproves God.

It ain't hard.

So by reacting to the issue, they are responsible for it?

 

[Breathe]

So by reacting to the issue, they are responsible for it?

Short answer: not quite.

They [and by they, I mean the ones who do this; I'm aware not everyone does it] aren't responsible, as such, but they are (probably unknowingly) being an aid by focusing on them so much, and by making the issue a "this OR that" and giving limelight to something that should be dying off as a movement in America right now, but seems to be getting louder and revelling in the perceived persecution.

 

[freethinker44]

Short answer: not quite.

They [and by they, I mean the ones who do this; I'm aware not everyone does it] aren't responsible, as such, but they are (probably unknowingly) being an aid by focusing on them so much, and by making the issue a "this OR that" and giving limelight to something that should be dying off as a movement in America right now, but seems to be getting louder and revelling in the perceived persecution.

But anti-theists aren't making the issue "this or that", creationists are doing that. YEC's are saying evolution isn't true because it contradicts god. Anti-theists aren't saying god isn't true because it contradicts evolution, they are just saying evolution is true. Whether or not it contradicts god is irrelevant.

Also, I think it is very irresponsible to simply ignore creationism and hope it goes away. If not for a vocal opposition to creationism our kids would be going to school to pray and open their bibles for the day's science lesson. All of the court cases that were brought against schools which keep creationism out of schools, those weren't preemptive strikes, those were reactions to creationist school policies already in effect. If we didn't stand up and sue them and tell them they are wrong, they would have succeeded in perverting the minds of the next generation of Americans and the American population would become more and more Creationist with every generation.

 

[Breathe]

But anti-theists aren't making the issue "this or that", creationists are doing that. YEC's are saying evolution isn't true because it contradicts god. Anti-theists aren't saying god isn't true because it contradicts evolution, they are just saying evolution is true. Whether or not it contradicts god is irrelevant.

I know where you're coming from, but there are anti-theists who are doing this; I really wish there wasn't because it plays right into their hands, and it's embarrassing to see, but it can and does happen, and it's with this that creationists are padding up their case on "why evolution is an enemy of faith" or something.

Also, I think it is very irresponsible to simply ignore creationism and hope it goes away. If not for a vocal opposition to creationism our kids would be going to school to pray and open their bibles for the day's science lesson. All of the court cases that were brought against schools which keep creationism out of schools, those weren't preemptive strikes, those were reactions to creationist school policies already in effect. If we didn't stand up and sue them and tell them they are wrong, they would have succeeded in perverting the minds of the next generation of Americans and the American population would become more and more Creationist with every generation.

I do get where you are coming from, and I don't disagree, but this isn't the kind of opposition I had in mind.

Although, it's quite clear that creationism has no actual position to use, other than "God did it", I'd've loved to see them spend a while trying to get something only to have it rejected for not following scientific protocols, and keep having it fail on those grounds.

It's an attractive ground for those who don't actually understand what evolution teaches, though, because creationism is simple and stays the same. Evolution is complex, confusing, and can evolve with new evidence. For some reason, they see this as a bad thing. sarcastic)
Naturally, with a good enough education in what evolution teaches, creationism would crumble, but I don't know how quick this medicine is being put into place.

Is creationism still being taught in schools under the radar?

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

I have never heard anyone make this argument. I think it's a straw man. In other words, I think it is something made up by those who are against theism or don’t agree with organized religion.

So I would like for anyone to provide arguments as to where they herd it or think religious people think this, because it doesn’t seem to represent the majority of religious beliefs, and if this claim is true then it represents a small minority of people. So I would like to know what that religion is.

In other words, provide the religion or group of people that think the earth is only a few hundred years old and how they came to that conclusion. Also provide statistical data to back up those claims, including the percentage of religious people amongst current religions.

As a side note: No I will not further explain myself if you had a hard time understanding it the first time.

Since 1982, between 40% and 50% of adults in the United States consider themselves "Young Earth Creationists." 76% of America's population is Christian. Other religions only make up 5 percent of the population, and the rest are non-religious (atheists, agnostics, deists, pantheists, etc.) which would have no need to believe in young-earth creationism anyway. That would mean that a majority of Christians believe in young-earth creationism.

 

[freethinker44]

I know where you're coming from, but there are anti-theists who are doing this;

Where though? It's not the ACLU, not Dawkins, Harris, or any other "figurehead" of the "new atheists", it's not David Silverman or Michael Shermer, it's not Talk origins or American Atheists, where are these anti-theists that are making the issue God OR evolution because the people and groups I named are a pretty big source of the anti-theist criticism of creationism and they don't make it about God OR religion.

Is creationism still being taught in schools under the radar?

Yes, it is.
NLR district acknowledges creationism at school
Texas Public Schools: Still Teaching Creationism | Mother Jones
Evolving Creationism in the Classroom - Scientific American