The Eternal Covenant of God: Does it exist within Hinduism and Buddhism?

[SalixIncendium]

First one needs to know what eastern thought is. You can't just call an orange an apple, and then believe it's an apple. .

You can call an orange and apple. You can even believe it's an apple. Just don't expect me to believe it is or to call it an apple.

 

[SalixIncendium]

. Hindus (and Buddhists) are very clear about their various views. Please check with us whenever you want the exact description. 'Maya' is a veil of ignorance between us and the 'reality'. 'Maya' is like vapor covering a mirror. Clear the vapor and you start seeing things better. Do we see the atoms and molecules that make the table? We take what we perceive as 'reality', but is that the actual 'reality'?

Therefore, in 'Advaita' Hinduism, the philosophy I follow, we accept two kinds of realities. One which appears at the first glace as reported by our senses. We term it as 'Pragmatic Reality'. But the reality which comes up after scientific experiments and analysis of our observations, we term that as 'Absolute Reality'. For example, on further research, we find that molecules and atoms are not solid rubber balls but points of energy in a field which spreads in the whole universe. I hope what I have written gives you some idea of how Hindus understand 'Maya'.

I'd use the term "beyond" rather than "after." Maya, as I see it, exists within, but obscures, Absolute Reality. That aside, I agree with what you said here.

 

[SalixIncendium]

If they go beyond intellect, then I would be wary of them. Because they could deceive (since they are beyond intellect). 'Advaita' Hinduism is not that kind of belief.

Check local listings.

There is that which is experienced beyond intellect, but it takes intellect to understand them in pragmatic reality. This is why many who have such experiences struggle to explain them with words.

 

[SalixIncendium]

It's about the intellect then?

Intellect meaning material knowledge, things you can read in books and draw conclusions from without needing experience to know it. i.e. reading about meditations without needing to experience it.

Experience and intellect aren't mutually exclusive. Intellectual knowledge can come from reading or personal experience. The difference being the latter is verifiable on a personal level, whereas the former is not.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Experiences are of many kind. Experiences while being awake and aware and experiences while we sleep or our mind is playing tricks with us. Even the acceptance of experience should depend on intellect. After analyzing whether what we experiencing is truth or hallucinations? Many people experience God.

Whether something is truth or hallucination is relative. Can you objectively verify that your participation in this thread is not a hallucination?

 

[SalixIncendium]

I'm beyond intellect all the time, as are my teachers.

All the time?

Can you please post when you and your teachers are driving so I can make sure I'm off the roads at that time?

 

[Vinayaka]

All the time?

Can you please post when you and your teachers are driving so I can make sure I'm off the roads at that time?

Good point. I'll do my best to let you know. I'm going to koyil this AM to pick apples to give away at the free lunch/prasadam.

Driving is about 50% subconscious, and 50% conscious. Very little thinking, although navigation might be intellectual, deciding which route. I didn't really mean to belittle the intellect, it's a useful tool, as you know, but not Hinduism's primary tool. That would be whatever it is that gives personal insight. Intellect just rearranges other people's thoughts.

Driving is difficult under the influence of powerful sannidhya. I've done it a few times.

The books I do read are more like instruction manuals than philosophical discourses.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Good point. I'll do my best to let you know. I'm going to koyil this AM to pick apples to give away at the free lunch/prasadam.

I think we may be good then. I'm settled in at Panera Bread right now doing work admin, but I will be driving over to St Richards to donate blood in a bit. I'll check in before I leave.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I'm beyond intellect all the time, as are my teachers. You're wary of us?

Your way is not my way, Vinayaka. You are welcome to your view. Actually, I saw news about pilgrims coming to Palani two or three days ago.
'Kumara Saranam', 'Thiruchendur Muruga Saranam'. I am a practicing Hindu, does not matter if I am an atheist. I am happy in your happiness.

Salix, I understand it both in Parmarthika as well as Vyavaharika quite clearly. What is in Vyavaharika is surely not the reality (my participation in the thread). I, as Aupmanyav, am myself not a reality. .

 

[Vinayaka]

Your way is not my way, Vinayaka. You are welcome to your view. Actually, I saw news about pilgrims coming to Palani two or three days ago.
'Kumara Saranam', 'Thiruchendur Muruga Saranam'. I am a practicing Hindu, does not matter if I am an atheist. I am happy in your happiness.

.

Many walk to Palani. On the road by car, you know when you're getting closer as the density of the walkers thickens. Even Madurai has quite a few, on the main road.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Are you telling me or the people who write dictionaries?
I was simply giving a definition of 'intellect' in support of your comment,

Which I happen to agree with by the way.

Okay. That's my point in the last comment. I was asking Ap. if he meant intellect (what one knows) the same level as the mystics hindus don't explain in full behind the basics. At least that's the impression I got here. That and the culture and language barrier.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

First one needs to know what eastern thought is. You can't just call an orange an apple, and then believe it's an apple. .

You can call an orange and apple. You can even believe it's an apple. Just don't expect me to believe it is or to call it an apple.

One can see the purpose of each piece fruit is to be eaten as to nourish the body.

Likewise mans soul is nourished by the fruits of the spirit.

One can choose only to eat an apple, or and orange, but they miss out on all other wonderdul fruits.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

'Maya' is a veil of ignorance between us and the 'reality'. 'Maya' is like vapor covering a mirror. Clear the vapor and you start seeing things better. Do we see the atoms and molecules that make the table? We take what we perceive as 'reality', but is that the actual 'reality'?

I'd use the term "beyond" rather than "after." Maya, as I see it, exists within, but obscures, Absolute Reality. That aside, I agree with what you said here.

Reminded me of this passage I had read;

"...Verily I say, the world is like the vapor in a desert, which the thirsty dreameth to be water and striveth after it with all his might, until when he cometh unto it, he findeth it to be mere illusion. It may, moreover, be likened unto the lifeless image of the beloved whom the lover hath sought and found, in the end, after long search and to his utmost regret, to be such as cannot “fatten nor appease his hunger.”

Actual reality is not of this world.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Check local listings.

There is that which is experienced beyond intellect, but it takes intellect to understand them in pragmatic reality. This is why many who have such experiences struggle to explain them with words.

I see that it is us that struggle to understand what we are being told in metephor. This is because the only way to explain the Spiritual worlds of God, is to put it into a material explanation. The only people that can explain, are those that are born from that world, God's Messengers. This is God's Covenant, that we will be not left alone unguided

We that are in a matrix, can not see beyond the walls that confine us.

Regards Tony

 

[SalixIncendium]

Reminded me of this passage I had read;

"...Verily I say, the world is like the vapor in a desert, which the thirsty dreameth to be water and striveth after it with all his might, until when he cometh unto it, he findeth it to be mere illusion. It may, moreover, be likened unto the lifeless image of the beloved whom the lover hath sought and found, in the end, after long search and to his utmost regret, to be such as cannot “fatten nor appease his hunger.”

Actual reality is not of this world.

Regards Tony

Not sure what how quotes from the Gleanings of Baha'u'llah are relevant to a thread exclusively discussing the covenants within God in Hinduism and Buddhism.

Are we injecting Baha'i faith into Hinduism and Buddhism again, Tony? If so...

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Not sure what how quotes from the Gleanings of Baha'u'llah are relevant to a thread exclusively discussing the covenants within God in Hinduism and Buddhism.

Are we injecting Baha'i faith into Hinduism and Buddhism again, Tony? If so...

If you wish to take it that way, that is your choice.

I personally see all Covenants, support all faiths, and none can be seperated. They one and all make us find our true and better selves.

If that view is not complementry with elevated eastern discussion, then what is the purpose?

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

Not sure what how quotes from the Gleanings of Baha'u'llah are relevant to a thread exclusively discussing the covenants within God in Hinduism and Buddhism.

Are we injecting Baha'i faith into Hinduism and Buddhism again, Tony? If so...

Just the nature of the beast. We could have a discussion on the makes of cars, or what we had for breakfast, and Tony could find a way to inject his Baha'i belief into the discussion. Modus operandi, my friend.

 

[Aupmanyav]

My understanding of Buddhism like Hinduism is a work in progress.
The concepts of both karma and Samsara have different meanings depending on whether we’re talking Buddhism, Hinduism, Jain or Sikh.
Karma for me is simply the consequences of actions. There are actions that lead to hell (intense suffering) or heaven (inner peace). Samsara is evolving from one state of being to another.

Ah, so says an Abrahamic.
Religions should be works in progress, otherwise they are fossils of an earlier age, unsuitable for the new age, denying the progress of science, and clinging to their old ideas of God, soul, revelation, salvation, prophets (sons, messengers, manifestations, mahdis) etc.
Samsara has the same meaning in Hinduism and Sikhism but is slightly different in Buddhism and Jainism. Samsara is the observed world which keeps moving/changing, that is the root of the word.
"Saṃsāra is rooted in the term Saṃsṛ (संसृ), which means to go round, revolve, pass through a succession of states, to go towards or obtain, moving in a circuit." Saṃsāra - Wikipedia
Karma is surely 'action', but the result of action/karma is known as 'karma-phala' (fruit/result of action). So, kindly correct your usage. Karma is not the consequence of action, but the action itself.

I personally see all Covenants, support all faiths, and none can be separated. They one and all make us find our true and better selves.

All covenants are chains of bondage and without any evidence. They are meant to put the seller (whether it be God, prophet, son, messenger, manifestation, mahdi, etc.) on a higher pedestal than the buyer (i.e., common folk). We can find our true and better selves without getting into a bondage.

Just the nature of the beast. .. Modus operandi, my friend.

Like the Wolves and Hyenas encircling the prey before making a kill. Vinayaka, you said 'Modus operandi'.

 

[Aupmanyav]

It's about the intellect then? Intellect meaning material knowledge, things you can read in books and draw conclusions from without needing experience to know it. i.e. reading about meditations without needing to experience it.

Yes, Unveiled Artist. And as Rocala quoted the meaning from dictionary. I am a materialist and not at all a mystic. I keep away from that kind of stuff, befuddles the mind.

The greatest proof being the Manifestation of God. The Covenants given by God and their fulfillment, are proof enough for me.

Likewise mans soul is nourished by the fruits of the spirit.

And laughable to people of science, ante-deluvian.

"...Verily I say, the world is like the vapor in a desert, which the thirsty dreameth to be water and striveth after it with all his might, until when he cometh unto it, he findeth it to be mere illusion. It may, moreover, be likened unto the lifeless image of the beloved whom the lover hath sought and found, in the end, after long search and to his utmost regret, to be such as cannot “fatten nor appease his hunger.”

Word salad, rendered in 'Olde English' for effect. Tricks of the trade. Like rendering an image in sepia.

The only people that can explain, are those that are born from that world, God's Messengers. This is God's Covenant, that we will be not left alone unguided.

"What I sell is unique, you won't find an equivalent in the market."

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes, Unveiled Artist. And as Rocala quoted the meaning from dictionary. I am a materialist and not at all a mystic. I keep away from that kind of stuff, befuddles the mind.And laughable to people of science, ante-deluvian.Word salad, rendered in 'Olde English' for effect. Tricks of the trade. Like rendering an image in sepia."What I sell is unique, you won't find an equivalent in the market."

It's just a reply comment. It's not that serious to make an issue. As long as the one I refered knows the context, that's fine with me. Nothing special and worth loosing my fingers over.