The Eternal Covenant of God: Does it exist within Hinduism and Buddhism?

[Dawnofhope]

Dharma is another concept that’s perceived to be applicable beyond Hinduism and Buddhism.

Dharma within Hinduism, Buddhism and beyond

 

[Vinayaka]

Dharma is another concept that’s perceived to be applicable beyond Hinduism and Buddhism.

Dharma within Hinduism, Buddhism and beyond

One has to very careful here. Word meanings get changed to suit a POV. Dr. Rajiv Malhotra, among others, is very aware of that, and once said he'd publish a book titled 101 untranslatable Sanskrit words.

The paradigms are so far apart that I would agree with him. It's sad, because when translations are done through an opposing lens, so much of the original intent is lost.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The vote was 12 against, 5 for. Through this discussion, did you learn anything, or did your original position move at all?

I have learnt a lot from discussions in RF and learnt a lot about what is the Hindu Faith and that of Buddhism. What I have learned is not necessarily going to be seen in the way you do, as my heart is fully motivated to find a unity in our oneness. That was my heart before being Baha'i and it will not change from that goal.

I have found some Hindu and Buddhists make their own covernants, from their own ideas, drawn from ancient sources. I see in a lot of those ideas a connection with what I have found to be the goal of humanity and it is with those ideas I know we can find a unity in diversity. Then there is a majority that just want peace and the chance to pursue a life free of man made conflict.

I see what the world needs is to embrace its unity in diversity and cease war to assist humanity as a whole. I see that can not happen until all of us look inside and embrace the covenant that cements our oneness.

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

One has to very careful here. Word meanings get changed to suit a POV. Dr. Rajiv Malhotra, among others, is very aware of that, and once said he'd publish a book titled 101 untranslatable Sanskrit words.

The paradigms are so far apart that I would agree with him. It's sad, because when translations are done through an opposing lens, so much of the original intent is lost.

The key understanding for me is that Dharma has multiple meanings and will be used in different ways with the varying schools of Buddhist and Hindu thought. So anybody can take an unfamiliar word, attribute just one meaning that suits their agenda, and argue for similarities or differences. What’s more useful is to appreciate the many nuances. Same deal with the Covenant. It’s not a concept that’s understood nor emphasised the same way in the different Abrahamic Faiths. It will even have different uses within each of the four religions I’ve identified as Abrahamic.

This thread provides an opportunity to learn about the main religions and what they teach. One method is by comparing and contrasting the essential concepts. If participants want to use the thread to push a set agenda that’s fine, but may defeat the primary purpose, to learn.

 

[Vinayaka]

What’s more useful is to appreciate the many nuances.

That I totally concur with, unless someone is projecting their nuance to where it shouldn't go, or doesn't belong.

 

[ajay0]

How about the Eternal Covenant of God that is so well established in the Abrahamic Faiths? Are there parallels in Buddhism and Hinduism? Perhaps the traditions based on the Dharmic Faiths have diverged so far from Abrahamic Faiths the concept of an Eternal Covenant is rendered meaningless. Is the Eternal Covenant of God uniquely Abrahamic or is it more Universal and applicable to both Hinduism and Buddhism?

Comments or questions as you will.

There are monotheistic Dharmic sects like the Prajapita Brahmakumaris, Lingayats, Sikhism and Arya Samaj who hold similar views.

The Prajapita Brahmakumaris are unique amongst all the monotheistic religions in that it is the only spiritual institution in the world led, administered and taught by women. It is a great example for all the other monotheistic religions and will hopefully eliminate chauvinistic beliefs in them. The Prajapita Brahmakumaris worship God as a point of light.

There are numerous correlations between God and light in the Abrahamic religions.

I have highlighted this in this thread of mine...

Interesting correlation between God and light in major world religions...

 

[firedragon]

The Eternal Covenant of God is an enormously important part of the Abrahamic Faiths whether it be Judaism, Christianity, Islam or the Baha’i Faith. At its heart is a binding agreement between God and man. God asks man to recognise His Great Spiritual Teachers and follow Their Teachings. In return God promises to protect and care for man and to bless Him. Various Covenants are recorded in the Hebrew Scriptures through Noah, Abraham, Moses and David. Similar narratives are at work through Christ, Muhammad, the Bab and Bahá’u’lláh. Conceptually the Covenants are well established and progress through each Revelation.

However, Hinduism and Buddhism have developed parallel and usually seperate from their Abrahamic sister Faiths. Their narrative evolved over thousands of years is quite different. Yet Buddhism emerged from Hinduism as did Christianity from Judaism and the Baha’i Faith from Islam. Societal laws and those for spiritual development have successfully been put into practice and evolved over centuries or even Millenia. So in that sense there are clear parallels.

How about the Eternal Covenant of God that is so well established in the Abrahamic Faiths? Are there parallels in Buddhism and Hinduism? Perhaps the traditions based on the Dharmic Faiths have diverged so far from Abrahamic Faiths the concept of an Eternal Covenant is rendered meaningless. Is the Eternal Covenant of God uniquely Abrahamic or is it more Universal and applicable to both Hinduism and Buddhism?

Comments or questions as you will.

What is the concept of God in Buddhism?

 

[Dawnofhope]

What is the concept of God in Buddhism?

It depends on who you talk to. Buddha famously declares that He will not answer questions about God or gods, choosing instead more practical and immediate concerns. A likely explanation is that the Hindu culture from which Buddha had become overly concerned with theological questions of an obscure nature that had little to do with reality of ordinary people’s lives.

 

[firedragon]

It depends on who you talk to. Buddha famously declares that He will not answer questions about God or gods, choosing instead more practical and immediate concerns. A likely explanation is that the Hindu culture from which Buddha had become overly concerned with theological questions of an obscure nature that had little to do with reality of ordinary people’s lives.

Brother. Where did Buddha declare that he will not answer questions about God or gods?

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. we override many of the laws of nature. .. A world where the body dies and our soul/mind lives on.

I do not think we can ever do that. Can we make a human live for 900 years (except, of course, in Bible)? There is no God or soul, and mind lasts only till the life lasts.

I see that can not happen until all of us look inside and embrace the covenant that cements our oneness.

With your insistence on one God and the last authorized teacher, whose teaching replaces the teaching of all others, I do not know how you can accomplish that.

Brother. Where did Buddha declare that he will not answer questions about God or gods?

SN 56.41.

paṭiccasamuppāda (Pratītyasamutpada):
"The instructed disciple of the noble ones, (however), attends carefully & appropriately right there at the dependent co-arising:
"'When this is, that is.
"'From the arising of this comes the arising of that.
"'When this isn't, that isn't.
SuttaCentral

 

[Vinayaka]

I do not think we can ever do that. Can we make a human live for 900 years (except, of course, in Bible)?There is no God or soul, and mind lasts only till the life lasts.With your insistence on one God and the last authorized teacher, I do not know how you can accomplish that.

Pretty hard to embrace something you don't believe in. I don't believe in some sacred covenant, you don't believe in God period. Yet we still get folks saying 'you should' in so many ways regarding belief. It will take me a few more lifetimes to figure out the ego in that. Just glad so many people have grown up and gone beyond that.

 

[crossfire]

It depends on who you talk to. Buddha famously declares that He will not answer questions about God or gods, choosing instead more practical and immediate concerns. A likely explanation is that the Hindu culture from which Buddha had become overly concerned with theological questions of an obscure nature that had little to do with reality of ordinary people’s lives.

Buddha did talk about it. However, staunch theists and staunch atheists won't like the answer...

Kevatta (Kevaddha) Sutta: To Kevatta

That said, whatever sentient beings there might be, they are subject to delusion (as this is part of sentience) and worthy of compassion.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

With your insistence on one God and the last authorized teacher, whose teaching replaces the teaching of all others, I do not know how you can accomplish that.

It is not I that accomplishes God's will for Humanity. In one way or another, we all are given a part and at the same time and for whatever reason it is so, God does give the gift of His Message to hearts willing to embrace and share that Message. Thus is becomes our choice to investigate what was offered and decide if by embracing that Message, the world would become a better place.

Also we are not alone, God's Will encompasses many more creations and an incalculable amount of worlds with their own creatures, many also with the ability to know and love God.

It is our own choice to be blind, or dead to all that reality.

I in no way can or want to change how you see creation, I onky ask God that All hearts be given a gift, a gift that is not mine to give.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Pretty hard to embrace something you don't believe in. I don't believe in some sacred covenant, you don't believe in God period. Yet we still get folks saying 'you should' in so many ways regarding belief. It will take me a few more lifetimes to figure out the ego in that. Just glad so many people have grown up and gone beyond that.

I see there is a time in a child's life where they think they know everything and that they have grown up.

That is much like the stage humanity as a whole is currently at, it is adolescence.

An adolescent will learn many lessons before they reach maturity.

They will go beyond adolescence, but they will look back at the many mistakes they made. The biggest mistake being they thought they had all the answers.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

It is our own choice to be blind, or dead to all that reality.

Calling non-Baha'i blind is such a tolerant thing to say.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Calling non-Baha'i blind is such a tolerant thing to say.

I did not say that Baha'i are exempt from blindness.

It all depends what one sees is sight. Each of us make that choice. There are many levels of bindness from total, to colour up to 20/20 vision.

We choose our own level and from that level see what we see.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

I did not say that Baha'i are exempt from blindness.

Besides all non-Baha'i, a few Baha'i are also blind?

 

[gnostic]

The Eternal Covenant of God is an enormously important part of the Abrahamic Faiths whether it be Judaism, Christianity, Islam or the Baha’i Faith. At its heart is a binding agreement between God and man.

You are kidding me?

If God was a real “god”, if God was indeed the same “god” in all 4 Abrahamic faiths that you mentioned, and if his covenants are as binding to him as everyone believe, THEN God wouldn’t be changing his bloody mind every times some new religions popped up.

When Jesus and his disciples came along, they tell them to ignore the old covenant made to Abraham to Moses, and accept the new one.

Muhammad did the same thing with his new religion, telling his followers to ignore the covenants to the ancient Hebrews and to the Christians before him.

And now with the recent Baha’i Faith, the same recycled propaganda don’t look at the old covenants, look at the new one.

Each new religion after Judaism is trying to promote a newer covenant, are nothing more than propaganda.

The original covenant got lost in each new religions to make way for new ones, so that mean the covenant isn’t “eternal”.

You capitalizing eternal with “E” is just more of the same recycled propaganda nonsenses. And it make God being portrayed as a fickle tyrant, who cannot keep his words.

 

[Aupmanyav]

It is our own choice to be blind, or dead to all that reality.

It is our own choice to be credulous (willing to believe or trust too readily, especially without proper or adequate evidence; gullible - Dictionary.com).

Besides all non-Baha'i, a few Baha'i are also blind?

Yeah, there are some, but they are promptly ostracized by House of Justice.

"Central to Cole's complaints was a process of review that required Bahá'í authors to gain approval before publishing on the religion."
Criticism of the Bahá'í Faith - Wikipedia

Each new religion after Judaism is trying to promote a newer covenant, are nothing more than propaganda. The original covenant got lost in each new religions to make way for new ones, so that mean the covenant isn’t “eternal”. You capitalizing eternal with “E” is just more of the same recycled propaganda nonsenses. And it make God being portrayed as a fickle tyrant, who cannot keep his words.

"According to the biblical narrative there were two sets of tablets. The first, inscribed by the finger of God, (Exodus 31:18) were smashed by Moses when he was enraged by the sight of the Children of Israel worshipping a golden calf (Exodus 32:19) and the second were later cut by Moses and rewritten by God as He said in Exodus 34:1. (Exodus 34:28)[failed verification (See discussion.)]"
Tablets of Stone - Wikipedia

 

[Dawnofhope]

Brother. Where did Buddha declare that he will not answer questions about God or gods?

One time Malunkyaputta asks the Buddha about the Eternal nature of the reality. He famously avoids the question completely but answers with the parable of the poisoned arrow:

Cula-Malunkyovada Sutta: The Shorter Instructions to Malunkya