The fall of man; Free will

[TEXASBULL]

Cant.
she went far enough to say
"If gods not real than what would i live for?"
She's way past relating to me on anything else.

All of my best friends and family are mostly church people. I would never tell my mom how I feel now. It would break her heart.

Its very hard to live in the mist of people so set in their ways.

Thats why I come to RF, so I can vent and express my view freely without the hurtful words from people I have know for years and drank the same koolaid.

I still go to church every Sunday with my wife who is still a believer. I smile , clap my hands, and hug all my friends. Then I sit and listen to the preacher spew his BS for an hour. I go to a 3000 member mega church. Most of the time he is raising money and putting guilt on people who don't give enough.

I have a lot of people praying for me right now to come back to the fold. LOL:faint:
I try to fake it as best as I can, but its hard when I was sitting on the front row in a fresh suit every week. Now I am sitting in the back with the common folk and look at my iphone most of the service.

 

[jml03]

I apologize if I offended you, I dont know you, this is true, but I also assumed your christian, and the teachings of christian is from a little black book is all I meant.

See, that is where you assume too much. To be a Christian is to believe Jesus died on the cross, it was the final ultimate sacrifice for mankind. This is what a Christian is to me. To believe. Everything else, well it comes to you. Not by a book, but by a personal relationship with God. After reading more of your posts, I have to say I empathize with your situation. I have strict Pentecostal grandparents who live their lives based on the teachings of the book and ministers. I read the bible as more of a "guideline" , there's no other way phrase what I can say about it. God is in me, just as Jesus said He would send the comforter when He left. I find comfort and peace like I've never known today. It's not thru reading the bible and dissecting every little period and comma. I go to church where I can praise God without fear of anything. I don't have to act a certain way, dress a certain way, etc. And I must say, I don't entirely agree with ANYONE there. That's what can be wonderful about not focusing on how everyone else says to live and act to be a Christian. Like I said, I believe in God. I believe Jesus died on the cross for me. I believe the Holy Spirit roams freely. That is all I need to be a Christian.

 

[Thief]

i'm not even implying violence in any way, i'm saying i absolutely and completely disarmed your explanation for destiny and when you had literally nothing constructive to say about it other than "do unto others as you would have done unto you, this proves free will and destiny work together" then you have no logical reason to assert anything, that doesn't even make SENSE, in any way shape or form.

The definiton of destiny is something that is PRE-DETERMINED, something that has been determined before you even came in to being. It implies that your entire life, every decision you will ever make and indeed have ever made, was already set on a path that was made before you were even a figment in the imagination of your parents when they were children, or indeed, since the very beginning of known time itself.

Well...not believing in life after death doesn't help.
But I do believe in it.
So...of course a moral code....that continues after this life makes sense.

Now if you want to blame a fixed future for your actions...
Then little if anything will ever be in your control....not your fault...
you're not responsible...not accountable.

Good luck with all that.

Oh...that's right...no luck for you...not a chance of it.

 

[waitasec]

Well...not believing in life after death doesn't help.
But I do believe in it.
So...of course a moral code....that continues after this life makes sense.

Now if you want to blame a fixed future for your actions...
Then little if anything will ever be in your control....not your fault...
you're not responsible...not accountable.

Good luck with all that.

Oh...that's right...no luck for you...not a chance of it.

are you in control of your life?

 

[Thief]

unless this doesn't occur and you in fact never rise from your ashes, much the same way i won't, or no one else will or ever has for that matter.

and why do you keep trying to threaten people with torment by angels? Are you really that arrogant?

Not a threat.
Simply consequence....as explained in previous postings.

 

[waitasec]

So far so good.

The actual point of proving though happens when I lay down to surrender it.

There will be only one desire waiting for me...I will desire to stand up.

If I succeed, the angels will be there to see what came of the dust.

They will ask of me...'something'.
I will report what I have done... what I have said.
If my report goes well, I will be allowed to follow.

As we proceed they will ask if I told anyone else.
That's when this discussion comes up.
They will then come looking for you.

if you are in control of your life how do you know what your destiny is?
because a flawed book told you what it was?

how do you reconcile scripture that CLEARLY contradicts what you said

matthew 16;28 "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

what does that mean to you?

 

[Thief]

if you are in control of your life how do you know what your destiny is?
because a flawed book told you what it was?

how do you reconcile scripture that CLEARLY contradicts what you said

matthew 16;28 "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

what does that mean to you?

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.....
puts me in control.
It will be done unto me as I did unto others.

This practice is the kingdom the Carpenter spoke of.
I see it....I understand...I cannot plead ignorance.
That I can see...the kingdom...and I am not yet dead...proves the scripture you quoted.

 

[waitasec]

how do you reconcile scripture that CLEARLY contradicts what you said

matthew 16;28 "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

what does that mean to you?

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.....
puts me in control.
It will be done unto me as I did unto others.

This practice is the kingdom the Carpenter spoke of.
I see it....I understand...I cannot plead ignorance.
That I can see...the kingdom...and I am not yet dead...proves the scripture you quoted.

get over yourself, he wasn't talking to YOU

 

[Thief]

get over yourself, he wasn't talking to YOU

On the contrary...
Each one of the parables...as well as many of His public speeches ARE aimed
at anyone and everyone.

What...you didn't notice?
Your plea of ignorance is gone.

I am a thief.....you know.

 

[jonman122]

On the contrary...
Each one of the parables...as well as many of His public speeches ARE aimed
at anyone and everyone.

What...you didn't notice?
Your plea of ignorance is gone.

I am a thief.....you know.

You are a theif of nothing except your own intellect, you haven't even made one logical or backed up argument this entire time, yet you continue to pour over everything anyone says and throw some religious sayings in to it. Give me solid evidence, or any evidence whatsoever, if you have it.

you have none, and therefore you ARE ignorance.

 

[waitasec]

how do you reconcile scripture that CLEARLY contradicts what you said

matthew 16;28 "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

what does that mean to you?

On the contrary...
Each one of the parables...as well as many of His public speeches ARE aimed
at anyone and everyone.

What...you didn't notice?
Your plea of ignorance is gone.

I am a thief.....you know.

that passage has NOTHING TO DO with heaven
it has to do with the 2nd coming
something that has yet to happen...and guess what, ALL of those people are DEAD
so who's being stubborn?

 

[waitasec]

matthew 16;27For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. 28"I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

how can christians look at this passage and think JC was talking to them in the now, wasn't he talking to his disciples? are SOME of those disciples alive NOW? i'm guessing no

 

[Thief]

matthew 16;27For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. 28"I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

how can christians look at this passage and think JC was talking to them in the now, wasn't he talking to his disciples? are SOME of those disciples alive NOW? i'm guessing no

Guessing?....yes you are.

Are you still disbelieving in life after death?

 

[it's_sam]

I still havnt seen any proof that it doesnt exist. http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/general-religious-debates/101048-our-existance.html

 

[Willamena]

matthew 16;27For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. 28"I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

how can christians look at this passage and think JC was talking to them in the now, wasn't he talking to his disciples? are SOME of those disciples alive NOW? i'm guessing no

The now that is now, not then, is the very same now that was then, not now.

 

[it's_sam]

:clap

The now that is now, not then, is the very same now that was then, not now.

:clap

 

[waitasec]

get over yourself, he wasn't talking to YOU

On the contrary...
Each one of the parables...as well as many of His public speeches ARE aimed
at anyone and everyone.

What...you didn't notice?
Your plea of ignorance is gone.

I am a thief.....you know.

that passage has NOTHING TO DO with heaven
it has to do with the 2nd coming
something that has yet to happen...and guess what, ALL of those people are DEAD
so who's being stubborn?

matthew 16;27For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. 28"I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

how can christians look at this passage and think JC was talking to them in the now, wasn't he talking to his disciples? are SOME of those disciples alive NOW? i'm guessing no

Guessing?....yes you are.

Are you still disbelieving in life after death?

I still havnt seen any proof that it doesnt exist. http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/general-religious-debates/101048-our-existance.html

paul thought the law was fulfilled in Christ through faith
and if you tried to keep the law you were in danger of loosing your salvation Gal 1-3 and Gal 5:4
matthew however thinks the followers should keep the law
matthew 5:17-20 “for i tell you unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and pharisees you will never enter the kingdom of heaven” –Jesus Christ
-so, was JC talking to YOU here in the now or only to them in the past? are you going to follow the law or not? which one are you going to cherry pick?
are you also going to sell everything you have? luke 18:18-22

yes yes yes cherry picking at it's finest

 

[it's_sam]

are you also going to sell everything you have? luke 18:18-22

Perty much the only things I don't end up selling is art. I follow laws but I also think some are rediculous. I think we all have it right in our own way, its just not for everyone so we have ALOT of ways. Can you find political statements worldwide coinciding with eachother? If they do coincide are they allways followed? We see it today its just larger in proportion.

 

[waitasec]

The now that is now, not then, is the very same now that was then, not now.

are you going to sell everything you have? lk 18:18-22
since...
"The now that is now, not then, is the very same now that was then, not now"
selling everything applies to you NOW, right?

go ahead and put the cash in my paypal account :slap:

 

[waitasec]

Perty much the only things I don't end up selling is art. I follow laws but I also think some are rediculous. I think we all have it right in our own way, its just not for everyone so we have ALOT of ways. Can you find political statements worldwide coinciding with eachother? If they do coincide are they allways followed? We see it today its just larger in proportion.

key word is EVERYTHING even your art...sorry bud it's not that easy to take up your cross, is it?
what? are you going to risk heaven for your art?