The fall of man; Free will

[PolyHedral]

The reaction of anyone can be predicted with arbitrarily high accuracy if one has enough data and a sufficiently powerful theory of mind. This idea follows from the theories of computer science and nothing is known that prevents it, only the difficulty of amassing enough data. How does one have free will if any sufficiently powerful intelligence can predict the will as accurately as it wants to? This intelligence need not be divine, or in any way disconnected from the universe.

Would you like to question God?

Impossible, assuming a nigh- or entirely omniscient God. The question "What will I do in 10 seconds time?" is perfectly answerable, and it is entirely reasonable to think that God should have an answer to it.

 

[waitasec]

Do you show them you want their effection? Do you coerce them to come to your hand and recieve the love you feel for them every night? Just because the current sitatuion works for your theory it does not include cats as a whole, or society.

it was just an example based on my experience...

think of a deer...if it hears something in the bushes, will it flee or investigate...

don't have that much time though, I'd rather debate the exisitence of god online

 

[it's_sam]

Impossible, assuming a nigh- or entirely omniscient God. The question "What will I do in 10 seconds time?" is perfectly answerable, and it is entirely reasonable to think that God should have an answer to it.

Too true. But then they ask "is God real?" and start their cycles all over again to hide from facing it, when everyone is showing them what they didnt want to hear in the first place. Im not entirely convinced athiests arent just in a copy/paste frame of mind, and never expanding on that realm.

 

[it's_sam]

it was just an example based on my experience...

think of a deer...if it hears something in the bushes, will it flee or investigate...

don't have that much time though, I'd rather debate the exisitence of god online

Dude if IM in the deep woods and i hear a big noise from the bushes you bet your BOOTY im runnin for the hills. This is called survival instincts. Or darwins theory if your stupid enough to investigate you deserve the bear in the bush.

 

[PolyHedral]

Too true.

However, it becomes slightly more complicated than that. Unless we've mucked something up in comp-sci or logic, the question "What will God be doing in 10 seconds?" is answerable, given enough data.

But then they ask "is God real?"

The reason they keep asking that is because you keep proposing gods that aren't backed up by anything.

 

[waitasec]

Dude if IM in the deep woods and i hear a big noise from the bushes you bet your BOOTY im runnin for the hills. This is called survival instincts. Or darwins theory if your stupid enough to investigate you deserve the bear in the bush.

exactly!!! that is what i am talking about
survival instincts, but you have to admit us humanoids rationalize fear, don't we
animals flee...at least it's their 1st instinct to

 

[it's_sam]

exactly!!! that is what i am talking about
survival instincts, but you have to admit us humanoids rationalize fear, don't we
animals flee...at least it's their 1st instinct to

Its OURS too man. Flee for safety if your odds are against you. Im not just saying it BTW.. im telling it to you personaly, If the odds are stacked against you FLEE with ALL you got. Because you will be consumed in that fire of mans free will to do harm.

 

[it's_sam]

The odds for a small animal in the woods is minimal, and "more often then not" the odds are against them.

 

[waitasec]

The odds for a small animal in the woods is minimal, and "more often then not" the odds are against them.

how about the fear of death?
is the purpose for religion to rationalize the fear of death?

 

[it's_sam]

I think so yes. In many ways we have allways been grasping the control of our fear, be it darkness or death we have tried to make this blow less painfull as well as easier to deal with. We have grown in the understanding of what life is though and this also changes the concepts of our death and everything that happened has led us to this victory. It was bad yes, it was sinfull, and it was horrible of humanity but it all had to happen the way it did or we wouldnt of learned anything.

 

[it's_sam]

I think it would be more of the fear that everything you accomplished in life had no meaning or purpose without it going somewhere after death for you to hold onto. So not the fear of death but the fear of loss was our hardest peak to climb.

 

[it's_sam]

I dont fear losing everything i know or am in this life. If God is the "one mind" he allready has who i am and what i stand for in that mind, i just need to show i match it's strength in truth during life to fit the bill. If I dont match who i say i am i know i stand to lose it all, in life or death.

 

[waitasec]

I think so yes. In many ways we have allways been grasping the control of our fear, be it darkness or death we have tried to make this blow less painfull as well as easier to deal with. We have grown in the understanding of what life is though and this also changes the concepts of our death and everything that happened has led us to this victory. It was bad yes, it was sinfull, and it was horrible of humanity but it all had to happen the way it did or we wouldnt of learned anything.

forgive my ADD but when you say,
"It was bad yes, it was sinfull, and it was horrible of humanity but it all had to happen the way it did or we wouldnt of learned anything."

are you talking about the fall of man? That it had to be necessary in order for us to learn anything in regards to fear?

 

[waitasec]

I dont fear losing everything i know or am in this life. If God is the "one mind" he allready has who i am and what i stand for in that mind, i just need to show i match it's strength in truth during life to fit the bill. If I dont match who i say i am i know i stand to lose it all, in life or death.

that is why i cannot believe in a god that was made in the image of man

we have one life...i believe, the life that i am aware of NOW...
if we are living for the afterlife then we are already dead...
as 'they' say life is for the living...
with freedom comes responsibility because WE are ALL born into freedom

 

[it's_sam]

exactly!!! that is what i am talking about
survival instincts, but you have to admit us humanoids rationalize fear, don't we
animals flee...at least it's their 1st instinct to

Mostly, but how could we know what to fear if it didnt exist yet? We had to learn it for ourselves so God wasnt every two second running around going "dont do that" to everyone. Everything is a step, a new thought is a new step toward your understanding things as a whole. Each step is different but it all stems from that first step and makes it connected no matter where it goes from there.

 

[waitasec]

Mostly, but how could we know what to fear if it didnt exist yet? We had to learn it for ourselves so God wasnt every two second running around going "dont do that" to everyone. Everything is a step, a new thought is a new step toward your understanding things as a whole. Each step is different but it all stems from that first step and makes it connected no matter where it goes from there.

fear is a state of mind...does that make it real
it is a belief that something bad will happen
fear of flying, open spaces, elevators, spiders
fear is real, but what we are afraid of, is that real?

when you are talking about eminent danger, that is based on experience;fact
fear of death, no one has the understanding of that...
what are we afraid of? Is it death or regret?

 

[it's_sam]

that is why i cannot believe in a god that was made in the image of man

we have one life...i believe, the life that i am aware of NOW...
if we are living for the afterlife then we are already dead...
as 'they' say life is for the living...
with freedom comes responsibility because WE are ALL born into freedom

We were made from his image, not an exact copy like perfect twins mentaly and physicaly. If you look around humans have the best bodies for achieving great works of both mind and body. We can do more as humans then any other animal on earth including monkeys " wich also have thumbs". I dont see it as much as were perfect as humans but we have the most to offer as a body and mind team. But you still have to prove your team works well together and in the right way. Do we know what to fear after death? Would we know what a rustling in the bushes looks like in the afterlife? Do we even know what heavenly fear would mean? If you have found your path to God he will guide you through these trials. In the darkness I was shown a light, and the light brought me home. Doesnt sound like it takes alot to get out of the situation if your head is in the right place.

 

[AnnaTheBeast]

fear is a state of mind...does that make it real
it is a belief that something bad will happen
fear of flying, open spaces, elevators, spiders
fear is real, but what we are afraid of, is that real?

when you are talking about eminent danger, that is based on experience;fact
fear of death, no one has the understanding of that...
what are we afraid of? Is it death or regret?

people that are afraid of death are ususally afraid that they wont get to do things.
The fact is that they fear somethign that is pointless, because even if they've done everything, they will still think they havnt done something. Life doesnt have nothing to do, you cant do everything so there will always be a fear of death.
so I'd say its Regret, regret of missing out on something, anything.

 

[waitasec]

We were made from his image, not an exact copy like perfect twins mentaly and physicaly. If you look around humans have the best bodies for achieving great works of both mind and body. We can do more as humans then any other animal on earth including monkeys " wich also have thumbs". I dont see it as much as were perfect as humans but we have the most to offer as a body and mind team. But you still have to prove your team works well together and in the right way. Do we know what to fear after death? Would we know what a rustling in the bushes looks like in the afterlife? Do we even know what heavenly fear would mean? If you have found your path to God he will guide you through these trials. In the darkness I was shown a light, and the light brought me home. Doesnt sound like it takes alot to get out of the situation if your head is in the right place.

these questions are based on fear "Do we know what to fear after death? Would we know what a rustling in the bushes looks like in the afterlife? Do we even know what heavenly fear would mean?"

i used to ask those but when i realized, our freedom in this life is boundless for everyone ...we are all equal. no one is better than the other, why would a loving god play favorites?

 

[it's_sam]

Because if you never walked the path to his house, your lost. He cannot help that. He laid down paths for man and women to walk down and find themselves, when this is done their self is found in God's house, the path is paved and clear and ready for walkin.