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The fall of man; Free will

waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
AnnaTheBeast said:
people that are afraid of death are ususally afraid that they wont get to do things.
The fact is that they fear somethign that is pointless, because even if they've done everything, they will still think they havnt done something. Life doesnt have nothing to do, you cant do everything so there will always be a fear of death.
so I'd say its Regret, regret of missing out on something, anything.
Click to expand...

would be a regret of not being dignified....being true to your self?
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
waitasec said:
to bring this back to freedom of will...god's nemesis

if we were to live in freedom why then would god draw a line?

it seems that from gods perspective crossing that line was an evil choice

in adams perpetual state of innocence he made a HIS choice to cross that line...the circular logic is; he was held responsible for doing something wrong in his perpetual state of innocence.

that is why our freedom of will is the nemesis of the IDEA of god, the bible says he is a jealous god, right? but from what exactly...our free will

reality vs. fiction

my 1st instinct is to believe there is no god
Click to expand...

And would it not be boring? having to follow after every gesture?
Some people think God knows in advance your next move.
THAT would be boring.

Putting a tree in a Garden, and then waiting see of anyone dares to eat of it,
would not be boring.
Especially as partaking would be clear indication....
Man does have a will of his own.

Was it a set-up?
Of course it was.
 
it's_sam

it's_sam

Freak of Nature
If the path didnt result at home it was the person walking the path that failed, not his path that failed. I kind of see this like all roads lead to rome. Except you cant walk in view distance of the road and be safe, you have to endure its trails to know its path and know how to deal with the thorns and rocks in the way. Otherwise you need depend on someone else to do this for you and found nothing for yourself but only what others can offer you.
 
AnnaTheBeast

AnnaTheBeast

Member
Thief said:
And would it not be boring? having to follow after every gesture?
Some people think God knows in advance your next move.
THAT would be boring.

Putting a tree in a Garden, and then waiting see of anyone dares to eat of it,
would not be boring.
Especially as partaking would be clear indication....
Man does have a will of his own.

Was it a set-up?
Of course it was.
Click to expand...


so your saying god set up adam and eve for his own entertainment?
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
it's_sam said:
Because if you never walked the path to his house, your lost. He cannot help that. He laid down paths for man and women to walk down and find themselves, when this is done their self is found in God's house, the path is paved and clear and ready for walkin.
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it doesn't seem like a very clear path to me, the bible, if anything, makes me ask more questions then getting answers
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
AnnaTheBeast said:
so your saying god set up adam and eve for his own entertainment?
Click to expand...

More to the prospect that Man could actually take in hand his own destiny.

To a Creator...this one item....brings Man closer to heaven.
"They have become like us."

Of course, knowledge is not sufficient that we walk in heaven.
Wisdom allows the next step up.
 
it's_sam

it's_sam

Freak of Nature
I have done much I dont forgive myself for. I was stupid and nothing can change the fact of my actions in the past. But i know that path now and better then ever before while walking it and i watch for its thorns to make me mad, or not care about consequence to fill my needs. I walked its path and came out a trail blazer, for a new one. I still do this in myself if I feel I had left out a side of thought imperritive to seeing things as a whole, and many of you have been the cause since just being on this forum. We perpetuate eachother in thought and in body, we build as a desire beyond control because it simply IS US. When a builder starts a building does he see the dirt field where he is working? Or does he see the building standing high above where he looks and see's the great work they will accomplish, regardless of what it takes to get there?
 
jonman122

jonman122

Active Member
Thief said:
More to the prospect that Man could actually take in hand his own destiny.

To a Creator...this one item....brings Man closer to heaven.
"They have become like us."

Of course, knowledge is not sufficient that we walk in heaven.
Wisdom allows the next step up.
Click to expand...

the idea of "destiny" takes away the free will of man from the start, if you really understand what destiny means. Think of it as, if our lives are pre-destined, then how can we possibly choose what to do with them? they are already set on a line, and we only have the illusion of free will.
 
it's_sam

it's_sam

Freak of Nature
it doesn't seem like a very clear path to me, the bible, if anything, makes me ask more questions then getting answers
Click to expand...
The path isnt clear unitll youve walked it, is my point. Otherwise your just seeing a jumble of weeds and thorns, where a path could be. The reason your finding more questions is because your still looking for the real question your brain is trying to ask. Keep looking, questions that lead to questions are just building up for a result. You just havnt found how they connect yet.
 
AnnaTheBeast

AnnaTheBeast

Member
waitasec said:
yea i think, for me it was when i forgave myself, that doesn't mean I can do whatever I want. it means to be dignified...to myself and to others
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I feel, personally, that belief in god is a safty blanket, as well as a santa and easter rabits. They cant be.
It is scary for some people, to not have someone direct them, and someone save them from ending up as nothing, when really thats all we are truly destine for, we die and are nothing after that. I'm only concerned with how my life goes, and the things I want to do with my life.
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
it's_sam said:
The path isnt clear unitll youve walked it, is my point. Otherwise your just seeing a jumble of weeds and thorns, where a path could be. The reason your finding more questions is because your still looking for the real question your brain is trying to ask. Keep looking, questions that lead to questions are just building up for a result. You just havnt found how they connect yet.
Click to expand...

life is for the living...and i'm not lost, i'm in my living room:)
i am at peace with the realization that I WILL DIE
as a believer i used to have panic attacks about dying
and now those attacks are gone...
 
Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
jonman122 said:
the idea of "destiny" takes away the free will of man from the start, if you really understand what destiny means. Think of it as, if our lives are pre-destined, then how can we possibly choose what to do with them? they are already set on a line, and we only have the illusion of free will.
Click to expand...
Destiny requires free will.
(if you really, really, understand what it means)
 
it's_sam

it's_sam

Freak of Nature
the idea of "destiny" takes away the free will of man from the start, if you really understand what destiny means. Think of it as, if our lives are pre-destined, then how can we possibly choose what to do with them? they are already set on a line, and we only have the illusion of free will.
Click to expand...
It is an illusion unfortunately. I have mentioned this before, but if you lets say relived this post, with the same thoughts you were having at the time, would you have ever in eternity answered these posts any other way? We run our risks with what we know, make a choice then act on it. No matter what we feel we cant change how we acted in a situation anymore then how we would act in a new one going off of what you know at the time. This is unique though in its essence because the cumulitive of this is you, and who you are. As our paths are for us and who we are, they are not all the same paths, but they do all lead to home.
 
PolyHedral

PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
Willamena said:
Destiny requires free will.
Click to expand...
Could you explain? All the definitions I found involve things that are preordained to happen in the future. That seems to preclude free will, rather than require it.

(Stop ninja'ing me.)
 
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