The fallacy of Jesus dying for our sins (By Shabir Ally)

[s2a]

[youtube]B4kKoV_uDts[/youtube]

This is a short 5 minute clip but it explains the major issues in the concept of Jesus being the sacrifice for mankind.

The death of Jesus to me is one of the most cruel acts one can do. To send your son and die for the sins of your previous children which were a result of the parent is truly one of the most illogical and absurd stories I have heard of.

What are your opinions on Jesus'es dying for mankind's sins?

For any atheist, the concept itself is indeed absurd.

Just the same, believing the rantings of some bearded dude who claims superior insight is hardly an improvement.

Just offered as fair comparison...

 

[Sonofason]

Jesus supposed death for our sins makes no sense to me. If Jesus died for our sins, he sacrificed nothing because he lost nothing. Pain and suffering become trivial when you're immortal. So really what did Jesus lose when he died? The christian god really couldn't come up with a better way to forgive himself than to sacrifice his son(or himself, depending on which denomination) to himself?

"But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus."
(Romans 3:21-26)

If this isn't clear enough, I suggest reading the following pages in their entirety, that is if you truly desire to know why Jesus had to die for us.

Why can't God just forgive sin, instead of demanding justice?

 

[psychoslice]

Jesus was the Son of God, he could rise from the dead so what was the big sacrifice?

I think to make people feel guilty, it sells you know.

 

[Muffled]

[youtube]B4kKoV_uDts[/youtube]

This is a short 5 minute clip but it explains the major issues in the concept of Jesus being the sacrifice for mankind.

The death of Jesus to me is one of the most cruel acts one can do. To send your son and die for the sins of your previous children which were a result of the parent is truly one of the most illogical and absurd stories I have heard of.

What are your opinions on Jesus'es dying for mankind's sins?

I believe God has never shown greater love for us than that.

 

[Muffled]

I think to make people feel guilty, it sells you know.

I believe His big savrifice is allowing sin. If He didn't sinners would be in Hell all of the time.

 

[Muffled]

How did Shabir Ally wasn't even born at the time of Jesus so how did he somehow put him on the cross? Unless your going to tell me that the christian god holds people accountable for sin before their even born.

I believe there is no such thing as a Chistian god; there is God.

 

[Britedream]

You're not fit to tell me what you think because you don't know what you're talking about with regard to Xtian theology. I'll be happy to explain it to you -- as I said above -- but be prepared to do A. Lot. of reading. What do you want explained?

You are missing the boat, I am not explaining any thing to you, I am saying to you , your Idea of God is contradicting my Idea of God, so through my idea of God I put my questions to you, to see if your idea of God stands correct in your mind, so you can explain to me what I see as nonsense.

 

[Britedream]

I believe there is no such thing as a Chistian god; there is God.

Agree

 

[Sleeppy]

The introduction is not very long it just about 4 min., but the lecturer is the man appearing in the photo, just slightly forward till you see it.

I may watch the full video at some point, but today I don't have that patience.. Is there something specific you would like me to see?

 

[sojourner]

You are missing the boat, I am not explaining any thing to you, I am saying to you , your Idea of God is contradicting my Idea of God, so through my idea of God I put my questions to you, to see if your idea of God stands correct in your mind, so you can explain to me what I see as nonsense.

To see if my idea of God stands correct in my mind? Of course my idea of God stands correct in my mind. Otherwise, I would change my mind. Is that what you have in mind?

 

[Britedream]

see the part talking about chapters and verses summation, then see his reply regarding that in The Q&A.

 

[Draupadi]

It's completely illogical. Why should I bear the burden of sin of Adam and Eve? Similarly why should Christ die for my sins? If I commit sin after His death I am going to hell anyway so what's the point? Only I am responsible for my own deeds. It seems that becoming flesh is a sin in Christianity.

 

[Britedream]

To see if my idea of God stands correct in my mind? Of course my idea of God stands correct in my mind. Otherwise, I would change my mind. Is that what you have in mind?

Is that really what you understood from my post?, did I say this is the reason behind my questions.

 

[sojourner]

Is that really what you understood from my post?, did I say this is the reason behind my questions.

It's the whole reason behind the OP and (I fear) why you feel you need to defend its defenseless position. You want to change our minds, as the proselytive video suggests.

 

[Britedream]

It's the whole reason behind the OP and (I fear) why you feel you need to defend its defenseless position. You want to change our minds, as the proselytive video suggests.

Please respond to my post. you keep bring up the video, just leave the video alone, My Questions were in respond to your post that Jesus (pbuh) did die, irrelevant whether there is a video or not.

 

[sojourner]

Please respond to my post. you keep bring up the video, just leave the video alone, My Questions were in respond to your post that Jesus (pbuh) did die, irrelevant whether there is a video or not.

Your question looks at Christian theology far too literalistically. Realistically, we cannot prove that Jesus existed, although the evidence that we have indicates that he did. Realistically, no one -- not even Muslims -- can prove even that God exists. Therefore, Christian theology is not so much a statement of physical cosmology, as it is a way of talking about how we understand the concept of the Divine, how we understand our value as spiritual creatures, how we understand the world, and how we assign meaning to ourselves and our world, in highly imaginative and metaphoric ways. Yet they are ways that we assert illustrate deeper truths about the world and our place in it.

Your question approaches our theological constructions of Christology and soteriology from the wrong assumptive position of physical cosmology. That's why a God apprehended in three Persons makes no sense to you. It's why the death of God-the-Son is questioned, and why you insist that, if such is the case, we worship a "dead God." And it's why the video runs so far afoul of explaining the "reasonableness" of such Christology and soteriology.

Until you're willing to accept the concept of the Divine in terms of theology instead of physical cosmology, we really have nothing to talk about.

 

[Britedream]

Your question looks at Christian theology far too literalistically. Realistically, we cannot prove that Jesus existed, although the evidence that we have indicates that he did. Realistically, no one -- not even Muslims -- can prove even that God exists. Therefore, Christian theology is not so much a statement of physical cosmology, as it is a way of talking about how we understand the concept of the Divine, how we understand our value as spiritual creatures, how we understand the world, and how we assign meaning to ourselves and our world, in highly imaginative and metaphoric ways. Yet they are ways that we assert illustrate deeper truths about the world and our place in it.

Your question approaches our theological constructions of Christology and soteriology from the wrong assumptive position of physical cosmology. That's why a God apprehended in three Persons makes no sense to you. It's why the death of God-the-Son is questioned, and why you insist that, if such is the case, we worship a "dead God." And it's why the video runs so far afoul of explaining the "reasonableness" of such Christology and soteriology.

Until you're willing to accept the concept of the Divine in terms of theology instead of physical cosmology, we really have nothing to talk about.

Thank you, now you are nice and sweet, responding to questions as you firmly believe, I respect your belief, but I disagree with you, that anyone should accept anything for the face value, this would contradict God wisdom and fairness, if God wants me to believe in something, or do things in a certain way, God will make things obvious beyond any doubt, given that he is wise and fair, how would he do that; a point for discussion.

 

[sojourner]

Thank you, now you are nice and sweet, responding to questions as you firmly believe, I respect your belief, but I disagree with you, that anyone should accept anything for the face value, this would contradict God wisdom and fairness, if God wants me to believe in something, or do things in a certain way, God will make things obvious beyond any doubt, given that he is wise and fair, how would he do that; a point for discussion.

We're still not talking the same language here, which is as I surmised at the outset. My response to you is:

How do you know God "wants" you "to believe in something, or do things in a certain way?" See? You're still operating under an assumption of physical cosmology. Christian theology simply doesn't operate that way.

In fact, I'm a little confused by your response. Can you phrase it another way?

 

[Sleeppy]

see the part talking about chapters and verses summation, then see his reply regarding that in The Q&A.

At what point does the summation begin?

 

[Britedream]

At what point does the summation begin?

if Iam not Mistaken it is in about 42:00, while Q&A regarding that is in about 1:18:35