The Family - A Proclamation to the World

[nutshell]

And it is religion that is tinkering with the marriage business.

I'm not anti-gay marriage, but doesn't it seem like the gay movement is the one tinkering with the marriage business?

 

[DeepShadow]

I agree but I would like the government to use the word marriage.

Another label is only going to deepen the rift.

It's a preexisting label. If people think that "marriage" is such a religiously oriented word, then forcing them to use it for gays is tantamount to legislating acceptance.

No matter how much we may want to, there's no way to legislate acceptance.

What homosexuals need from the government is what the government can actually provide. Tax breaks, automatic inheritance policies, etc. If people aren't treating gays like equals, no law can change that. I'd even say that no law should. If the person commits a crime on those beliefs, that can be acted upon, but insisting that people be PC...that's really what's going to widen the rift, and it's going to give the bigots some clout.

In the America I grew up in, people had a right to be bigots.

 

[nutshell]

It's a preexisting label. If people think that "marriage" is such a religiously oriented word, then forcing them to use it for gays is tantamount to legislating acceptance.

No matter how much we may want to, there's no way to legislate acceptance.

What homosexuals need from the government is what the government can actually provide. Tax breaks, automatic inheritance policies, etc. If people aren't treating gays like equals, no law can change that. I'd even say that no law should. If the person commits a crime on those beliefs, that can be acted upon, but insisting that people be PC...that's really what's going to widen the rift, and it's going to give the bigots some clout.

In the America I grew up in, people had a right to be bigots.

That's right. Changing the laws had no impact on segregation and the treatment of blacks either.

 

[Smoke]

No matter how much we may want to, there's no way to legislate acceptance.

It is, however, possible to legislate equality under the law.

In the America I grew up in, people had a right to be bigots.

Sure they do. They should not have the right to enshrine their bigotry in law, though.

 

[cardero]

Bring Back Polygamy!!

 

[DeepShadow]

That's right. Changing the laws had no impact on segregation and the treatment of blacks either.

I'm not sure what you are saying. Of course it did, that's why I drew distinctions. But there was never--could never be--a law that insisted that people stop being bigots, per se. We just prosecute them when they commit crimes out of it.

Are you aware of any laws that, for example, forbid people to use racial slurs in the privacy of their homes?

 

[DeepShadow]

It is, however, possible to legislate equality under the law.

Sure they do. They should not have the right to enshrine their bigotry in law, though.

I totally agree. That's why I think we should get the government out of the marriage business entirely.

 

[Jeremiah]

In the America I grew up in, people had a right to be bigots.

It is sad when you base your morality off of what the law will let you get away with.

People only have the right to be bigots by letter of the law to preserve the idea of a
liberal democracy. I consider bigotry a traitorous act to our freedom and nation.

 

[Jeremiah]

If people aren't treating gays like equals, no law can change that. I'd even say that no law should.

Religion could put a end to this they are after all the one's who started it.

Of couse putting an end to racism is ungodly.

 

[DeepShadow]

It is sad when you base your morality off of what the law will let you get away with.

...Yes, it is. Who was doing that?

People only have the right to be bigots by letter of the law to preserve the idea of a
liberal democracy. I consider bigotry a traitorous act to our freedom and nation.

I'd agree, but it's an unprosecutable one. It must be opposed by words, not laws.

 

[DeepShadow]

Religion could put a end to this they are after all the one's who started it.

Some are certainly trying.

Of couse putting an end to racism is ungodly.

I hope you aren't assuming that this is what I've been saying. Please reread my posts, and then ask a question if you find them unclear.

 

[Jeremiah]

DeepShadow I feel you are missing the big picture. This is about segregation in religion as an advocator of persecution. There will never be a true separation of state and church only a balance of power.





Edit for clarity*

 

[madhatter85]

DeepShadow I feel you are losing focus. This is about segregation in religion as an advocator of persecution. There will never be a true separation of state and church only a balance of power.

Wrong, this thread is about the Family unit, if you want to talk bigotry, gay rights, and politics, take it to another thread or another foum where someone cares, I dont give a care in the world about what gay people do because it doesnt affect me, as long as they don't force thier lifestyle on anyone. Unfortunately insead of "Give us rights" and shutting up about it, all i see is "Give us rights, and make sure everyone knows, and make sure it's ALL over the media and ALL over the world that we get what we want whenever we want it cause we're gay"

I couldn't care less as logn as they kept to themselves.


As for the marriage separating church and state, Yes i totally agree we should do that. that way gay peopel can be happy and us people who like marriage the way it is can have it our way too.

Unfortunately that won't happen, there is a huge legal foundation built upon the precept of marriage (immigration laws, tax laws, Living Trusts, and a whole other plethera of laws regarding married couples)

Also, the U.S. was founded on religious principals. anyone who deny's that never leanred U.S. History whatsoever.

you don't like the way the country is run? GO VOTE or go live in a cave and stop causing problems.

 

[Bishka]

Wrong, this thread is about the Family unit, if you want to talk bigotry, gay rights, and politics, take it to another thread or another foum where someone cares,.

I care about them and their rights -- but you are right, this thread is not about it.

I dont give a care in the world about what gay people do because it doesnt affect me, as long as they don't force thier lifestyle on anyone. ,.

And they don't want you forcing yours on them.

Unfortunately insead of "Give us rights" and shutting up about it, all i see is "Give us rights, and make sure everyone knows, and make sure it's ALL over the media and ALL over the world that we get what we want whenever we want it cause we're gay",.

Not really, it's sad taht you think that way about them, but that's hardly what they are doing. They haven't got the rights, that's why they use the media to get people's attention.

Also, the U.S. was founded on religious principals. anyone who deny's that never leanred U.S. History whatsoever."

This country was built on lots of things.

you don't like the way the country is run? GO VOTE or go live in a cave and stop causing problems.

Pardon? These people do vote, these people do care, and it's people like you who are causing the problems. People like you who think that their 'lifestyle' is causing problems. They want some rights, the same damn rights that married couples have, what the hell is the problem with that?

 

[Storm]

Thank you, Becky. Not only for the compassion, but for the reminder that not all LDSs are such jerks.

 

[Bishka]

Thank you, Becky. Not only for the compassion, but for the reminder that not all LDSs are such jerks.

Your welcome.

 

[fantome profane]

I dont give a care in the world about what gay people do because it doesnt affect me, as long as they don't force thier lifestyle on anyone. Unfortunately insead of "Give us rights" and shutting up about it, all i see is "Give us rights, and make sure everyone knows, and make sure it's ALL over the media and ALL over the world that we get what we want whenever we want it cause we're gay"

I couldn't care less as logn as they kept to themselves.

Considering that this thread is about promoting your values and your lifestyle, don’t you think this attitude is a bit hypocritical? If you don’t want to hear about gays, stick your fingers in your ears and hum real loud. No one is forcing anything on you, but they have just as much right to express themselves as you do.

I am sure you are aware that there are a lot of people out there who wish Mormons would just “keep to themselves”, but I will defend your right to express yourselves and to promote your ideas as much as you wish.

 

[Gentoo]

It's a good reminder anyway, that each group has their "good" members and their "not so good". I'll leave up to the reader to decide for themselves as to who belongs where.

 

[logician]

There is no god, heaven, or hell, so I'm not worried if I don't measure up to your "standards".

 

[Jeremiah]

Wrong, this thread is about the Family unit, if you want to talk bigotry, gay rights, and politics, take it to another thread or another foum where someone cares,

Any comments? Questions? Debates? Concerns?​

I for one love this statement​

Concerns?

Yes I believe I have already expressed my concerns about "this statement"

Sorry for the mix up.