The Family - A Proclamation to the World

[madhatter85]

I believe peopel are here to have joy, and i know that my greatest joy can come from having a family that loves me and that i can take care of with my Beautiful Wife

 

[NomyRomy]

Any comments? Questions? Debates? Concerns?

I for one love this statement​

Do you? Would you be any relations to a former MadHatter?:bow:

 

[Runt]

I don't know if that's what he's doing, but that's a pretty amazing capacity if you ask me.

Yes, but if making babies is the height of human nature and purpose, then we might as well be rabbits humping in the grass. We think, we feel, we create, we dream.... I think these capacities are at least equal to our reproductive one.

 

[madhatter85]

Do you? Would you be any relations to a former MadHatter?:bow:

I heard about him fromt he moderators, and no, I am not this madhatter person who got banned.

 

[madhatter85]

Yes, but if making babies is the height of human nature and purpose, then we might as well be rabbits humping in the grass. We think, we feel, we create, we dream.... I think these capacities are at least equal to our reproductive one.

and you are definitely Right in that. talents are given to us to learn and grow and help eachother reach our upmost potential, i was just pointign out the fact that life begets new life, and that is the natural instincts of things to create new life, not to stop life and extinct themselves.

 

[Runt]

I believe peopel are here to have joy, and i know that my greatest joy can come from having a family that loves me and that i can take care of with my Beautiful Wife

You speak of joy, of love, of interdependence... this sounds like we humans find meaning in our lives from more than mere procreation.

 

[Bishka]

Yes, but if making babies is the height of human nature and purpose, then we might as well be rabbits humping in the grass. We think, we feel, we create, we dream.... I think these capacities are at least equal to our reproductive one.

If you did not already know we see the powers of procreation as much more sacred the just 'rabbits humping in the grass'. It means much more then that to us. It's not a thing to be taken lightly, it's a sacred and wonderful gift. We were given the gift to create life. That in itself is an amazing gift.

 

[Runt]

and you are definitely Right in that. talents are given to us to learn and grow and help eachother reach our upmost potential, i was just pointign out the fact that life begets new life, and that is the natural instincts of things to create new life, not to stop life and extinct themselves.

I agree that the cycle of life-begetting-life is certainly a function of our existence, but I hesitate to say that it is necessarily our purpose. Although for some, conceiving, birthing and raising a child may be the singlemost pinnicle of meaning in their life---and there's nothing wrong with that, for it is indeed a very beautiful and amazing thing, to bring life into the world---it is not necessarily the purpose of every human life.

 

[Runt]

If you did not already know we see the powers of procreation as much more sacred the just 'rabbits humping in the grass'. It means much more then that to us. It's not a thing to be taken lightly, it's a sacred and wonderful gift. We were given the gift to create life. That in itself is an amazing gift.

Yet in order for human procreation to be something "more sacred" than just "rabbits humping in the grass", there must necessarily be something more valuable about human nature than our ability to procreate. Otherwise, why elevate us above rabbits, who can do precisely the same thing (and much better, I might add )? There must be some greater purpose to human life, some higher nobility to human nature, to make the begetting of human life "more sacred" than the begetting of rabbit life.

 

[NomyRomy]

I heard about him fromt he moderators, and no, I am not this madhatter person who got banned.

Oh, sorry for the misconception. I just thought it funny that a mormon hater by the name of madhatter gets banned then a mormon named madhatter joins. What a coincidence.

 

[MaddLlama]

I believe peopel are here to have joy, and i know that my greatest joy can come from having a family that loves me and that i can take care of with my Beautiful Wife

Do you take that joy and use it to make the assumption that every single human being on the planet agrees with you? Some people aren't interested in having a family.

 

[MaddLlama]

If you did not already know we see the powers of procreation as much more sacred the just 'rabbits humping in the grass'. It means much more then that to us. It's not a thing to be taken lightly, it's a sacred and wonderful gift. We were given the gift to create life. That in itself is an amazing gift.

Yes, but the point is that not everybody sees it that way.

 

[Bishka]

Yes, but the point is that not everybody sees it that way.

I know, I was responding to a poster who called it 'rabbits humping the grass'. I was making a clarification for them of telling them, that's definitely not how we see it.

 

[Bishka]

There must be some greater purpose to human life, some higher nobility to human nature, to make the begetting of human life "more sacred" than the begetting of rabbit life.

Which we believe there is -- that is why it is so sacred to us. We believe that we have a higher and greater purpose. You may not understand it, but it is important and sacred to us.

 

[Smoke]

I believe peopel are here to have joy, and i know that my greatest joy can come from having a family that loves me and that i can take care of with my Beautiful Wife

There's nothing wrong with that. The problem is when you assume that the joy you've found is the only joy there is to be found, and you take steps to prevent other people, as much as possible, from finding any other joy. That's exactly what this contemptible statement by your First Presidency and Council of the Twelve Apostles does:

We declare that God's commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force. We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife. ...

We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society.
​

The First Presidency has followed through by remaining politically active in support of discriminatory laws, even working diligently for a constitutional amendment to bar same-sex marriages. They have used the LDS church as a vehicle to push this political agenda. Hinckley and his crowd are the rankest sort of bigots.

 

[The Seeker]

We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society.

This sentence is the main problem that I have with this proclamation. The government shouldn't be promoting any type of measures that deal with ones idea of a family. It's bad enough that the government has already taken upon itself to define what marriage is.

 

[madhatter85]

There's nothing wrong with that. The problem is when you assume that the joy you've found is the only joy there is to be found, and you take steps to prevent other people, as much as possible, from finding any other joy. That's exactly what this contemptible statement by your First Presidency and Council of the Twelve Apostles does:

We declare that God's commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force. We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife. ...​

We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society.​

The First Presidency has followed through by remaining politically active in support of discriminatory laws, even working diligently for a constitutional amendment to bar same-sex marriages. They have used the LDS church as a vehicle to push this political agenda. Hinckley and his crowd are the rankest sort of bigots.

Unfortunately Homosexuality has always been an "abomination" before god in almost every christian religion. and of course we adhere to the plan of salvation and the law of chastity.

On a side note, the church does not get in politics, it does not spend money or efforts on political matters. members of the church (such as Mitt Romney) who are in politics who spend their money on political matters do not draw from the church a single penny.

The church has never accepted any government funding of any kind and will never do so.

I don't believe Homosexuals should have the same "Marriage" rights as traditional couples.

some thigns i do not agree with though are things like Prohibiting gay couples from seeing eachother in the hospital, that i think is wrong as well as a few other things they try to prohibit gay couples from doing.

We are not Bigots and do not "Look down" on people who are homosexual. Matter in fact we have memebrs of the church who have strong tesimonies of the gospel who feel they are gay. But the church does not allow them to partake of the blessings of going to the temple if they act on those urges, because it would be breaking the law of chastity.

We believe people who are "gay"are just very confused. We speak harshly against homosexual acts because it goes completely in contrary to the laws of chastity and against the sanctity of intercourse, and is a mockery of the most precious gift that god has given us, the gift to reproduce. It also goes against the sancity of the Family Unit.

i will place it aside that you call our church leaders bigots and other such names because it does not matter to me in the slightest what you think of our church leaders.

 

[madhatter85]

This sentence is the main problem that I have with this proclamation. The government shouldn't be promoting any type of measures that deal with ones idea of a family. It's bad enough that the government has already taken upon itself to define what marriage is.

This governemt was founded upon the principals of religious nature. "In God we Trust." The Governemt did nto "Take it upon themselves" to define Marriage, Marriage has been defined from the beginning of time. it is YOu who take it upon yourselves to try and change it.

 

[MaddLlama]

This governemt was founded upon the principals of religious nature. "In God we Trust." The Governemt did nto "Take it upon themselves" to define Marriage, Marriage has been defined from the beginning of time. it is YOu who take it upon yourselves to try and change it.

Pirates had a form of gay marriage back in the 1500's and 1600's.

 

[madhatter85]

Do you take that joy and use it to make the assumption that every single human being on the planet agrees with you? Some people aren't interested in having a family.

And no, that is what a debate forum is for to express opposing views. i posted my view and welcomed comment/debates and questions