The Feminism of the 21st century

[Quintessence]

If abortion rights are limited, a good solution could be to use contraception.

A vastly superior solution is to leave women's health care up to the woman in question in consultation with her doctor. Because pregnancy is complicated, and unless women have control over their reproductive lives, they do not have control over their lives at all. This has been demonstrated time and time again that women's rights and equality only really happens in countries where they are granted reproductive autonomy.

 

[Estro Felino]

A vastly superior solution is to leave women's health care up to the woman in question in consultation with her doctor. Because pregnancy is complicated, and unless women have control over their reproductive lives, they do not have control over their lives at all. This has been demonstrated time and time again that women's rights and equality only really happens in countries where they are granted reproductive autonomy.

I am not getting what reproductive autonomy is.
It is the right to have unprotected sex in a very irresponsible way, and to demand that gynecologists perform even 4 abortions a year on the same woman?

 

[Quintessence]

I am not getting what reproductive autonomy is.
It is the right to have unprotected sex in a very irresponsible way, and to demand that gynecologists perform even 4 abortions a year on the same woman?

It's very simple.

It's not being forced to bear a child against your will - which is a disgusting and unforgivable human rights violation that is a rare case where I will use the word "evil" to describe it. If you don't have bodily autonomy, you are a slave.

 

[Estro Felino]

It's very simple.

It's not being forced to bear a child against your will - which is a disgusting and unforgivable human rights violation that is a rare case where I will use the word "evil" to describe it. If you don't have bodily autonomy, you are a slave.

An abortion because it deals with a risky pregnancy is not the same thing as an abortion of a woman who got pregnant after having months of unprotected sex.
I don't think these two women have the same right.
This is my personal opinion.

 

[Quintessence]

An abortion because it deals with a risky pregnancy is not the same thing as an abortion of a woman who got pregnant after having months of unprotected sex.
I don't think these two women have the same right.
This is my personal opinion.

If you propose to treat promiscuous women like criminals, I'm okay with that if the men who they had sex with are locked up too. I wonder how full the prisons will get?

(I'm not actually okay with that, but from the standpoint of equal rights men must face equal punishment as women)

 

[crossfire]

Just one question: to you and to @crossfire
The fact that in my country TV host wear these outfits, does it mean that women are still prisoners of those cultural nomoi?

Don't you think that it's living proof that those nomoi are over? That women are free to wear whatever they like without fear of being misjudged?

No, the cultural nomos has many aspects.

 

[Estro Felino]

If you propose to treat promiscuous women like criminals, I'm okay with that if the men who they had sex with are locked up too. I wonder how full the prisons will get?

I didn't speak of promiscuity. At all.
I am speaking of married, monogamous women who have sex with their own husband without using the hormonal pill. Without using a condom. Without using any contraception method.
But having sex in a very irresponsible way for weeks or months.
And then getting pregnant. And then asking the physicians for an abortion.

 

[Estro Felino]

No, the cultural nomos has many aspects.

So if you want to tell me what these cultural nomoi are...good.
If you don't...well...I am not going to try to guess forever.

 

[crossfire]

It's an American problem, then.

I mean...if American women really wanted to get rid of those cultural nomoi, they would stop taking the husband's surname. That would be a start.

It's more of a matter of making a conscious decision to do so or to not do so, rather than just submitting to the default norm without conscious consideration. Some aspects of the nomos may be beneficial, while others may not be. It's ok to consciously choose which aspects the individual wishes to keep. (Thinking for yourself instead of being programmed by the unconscious groupthink of the nomos.)

 

[Quintessence]

I didn't speak of promiscuity. At all.
I am speaking of married, monogamous women who have sex with their own husband without using the hormonal pill. Without using a condom. Without using any contraception method.
But having sex in a very irresponsible way for weeks or months.
And then getting pregnant. And then asking the physicians for an abortion.

Okay, married couple, whatever. So both the man and woman here will be locked up in jail, then, because it takes two humans to have "irresponsible" sex.

 

[crossfire]

So if you want to tell me what these cultural nomoi are...good.
If you don't...well...I am not going to try to guess forever.

Individual conscious thinking is desirable.

 

[Estro Felino]

Okay, married couple, whatever. So both the man and woman here will be locked up in jail, then, because it takes two humans to have "irresponsible" sex.

I never spoke of jail.
I just said that unwanted pregnancy doesn't just arrive. Like the flu.

You need to engage in a very, very intense activity to get pregnant.

So it's not a problem of feminism. It's a problem of sex education.

 

[Estro Felino]

That's my take

 

[icehorse]

I decided to start this thread to understand how feminism has evolved since the 20th century.

Now women are safeguarded by lots of laws, and cannot be considered a "weak" gender, since there is a huge quantity of laws protecting women's rights and punishing gender inequality and gender discrimination.

So what I am wondering is: is feminism in the West still a political priority?
I guess it's not.
In the West feminists fight for non-existent problems, forgetting that feminism is desperately needed in those countries where women have no rights. And they are considered inferior to men.

I am asking feminists to explain me this: thank you in advance.

Social change is slower than we'd like it to be, but it does happen. I think feminists in "the West" made a lot of progress over the last 50 years or so. hooray. Now it seems that we have issues on several fronts:

- Women's rights outside of "the West" are far, far behind what women in the West enjoy.
- Hard fought rights are being taken away, e.g. overturning Roe vs. Wade
- Sorry to say, but many folks who champion gender ideology are also chipping away at women's rights (and based on many recent debates on RF, I know that many people disagree with me here on this point.)

 

[Estro Felino]

- Sorry to say, but many folks who champion gender ideology are also chipping away at women's rights (and based on many recent debates on RF, I know that many people disagree with me here on this point.)

Can you be more specific?

 

[icehorse]

There are still issues within the cultural nomos, which feminism calls the Patriarchy that need to be addressed, such as racism, transphobia, and how we approach mental health issues.

How are these things a product of the patriarchy?

 

[crossfire]

How are these things a product of the patriarchy?

They are part of the cultural nomos. Feminism calls the nomos The Patriarchy.

 

[Estro Felino]

They are part of the cultural nomos. Feminism calls the nomos The Patriarchy.

Or maybe in the US there is still the Patriarchy.
I have the impression that American women are not that liberated.
They still feel like competing with men.
And that makes them less feminine, on average, than European women. With all due respect, of course.
They still care what men do or don't. They are obsessed with men's judgment.



I can say in my country women have abolished the Patriarchy.
So it's American women who need to abolish patriarchy. By becoming independent from men's judgment.

 

[Stevicus]

It's the usual Divide et Impera.
That is...to foment the battle of the sexes instead of favoring unity.
Because the élites are afraid of the united people.

Nowadays women are liberated. They just need to cooperate with men to make society much more equitable.

I think upper-class women are cooperating with upper-class men to screw the lower classes, but that won't make society more equitable. If anything, the disparities between rich and poor have gotten worse in recent decades.

 

[ChristineM]

Or maybe in the US there is still the Patriarchy.
I have the impression that American women are not that liberated.
They still feel like competing with men.
And that makes them less feminine, on average, than European women. With all due respect, of course.
They still care what men do or don't. They are obsessed with men's judgment.



I can say in my country women have abolished the Patriarchy.
So it's American women who need to abolish. By becoming independent from men's judgment.

Italy, like France and Spain are still male dominated societies though great strides have happened in the last 10 or 20 years.

As for America i guess it depends where you go, some areas are still inder the thumb of the male, some are more enlightened.