The First Cause was not God.

[Thief]

The argument from consequences - the logical fallacy you're employing here - is irrational. Do you have anything to support your position besides your distaste for the implications (or what you assume to be the implications) if you're wrong?

There is the flip side of the same coin...
Consequence on one side.....Cause on the other.

Man was created to form spirit and each occasion a unique spirit.
The body can't do anything else.

Why?

Picture yourself as the First.....yes you can.

You have made all that is and your self awareness has gelled.
You are able to say....I AM!

But there is no response...only your Echo.
The substance reacts to your touch but it does not "respond".

You could split yourself in many ways and be in more than one place at one time.
The physical law doesn't apply to your Spirit.
You can come and go as you please....for all the good it does.

Solitary confinement is lonely....no matter how large the cage.

With nothing else to work with you then place some small portion of your life into the substance you have formed....Man.

And because the desired effect is a unique spirit...it's a 'hands off' application.
Direct contact must be limited.

Too much salt spoils the broth.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

There is the flip side of the same coin...
Consequence on one side.....Cause on the other.

Man was created to form spirit and each occasion a unique spirit.
The body can't do anything else.

Why?

Picture yourself as the First.....yes you can.

You have made all that is and your self awareness has gelled.
You are able to say....I AM!

But there is no response...only your Echo.
The substance reacts to your touch but it does not "respond".

You could split yourself in many ways and be in more than one place at one time.
The physical law doesn't apply to your Spirit.
You can come and go as you please....for all the good it does.

Solitary confinement is lonely....no matter how large the cage.

With nothing else to work with you then place some small portion of your life into the substance you have formed....Man.

And because the desired effect is a unique spirit...it's a 'hands off' application.
Direct contact must be limited.

Too much salt spoils the broth.

I'll take that as your way of saying "no, I don't have anything rational."

 

[Thief]

I'll take that as your way of saying "no, I don't have anything rational."

Can't follow?
Not surprised.

but I suspect you DO understand....and just won't fess up.

 

[Poeticus]

There was a First Cause. That First Cause was not something supernatural or spiritual. It was not God. It was a naturally existing force or interaction. A Fundamental Force even more fundamental than gravity or electromagnetism. Someday science will find a way to unify the four Fundamental Forces into a single, all-encompassing force. This will be the origin of the universe, the First Cause, the First Interaction.

"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force..." Max Plank

There is in fact something behind the existence of those Fundamental Forces. That "matrix of all matter" is not God, nor is it a conscious or intelligent mind. I believe it is another naturally existing Fundamental Force or Fundamental Interaction that science just hasn't figured out yet.

The First Cause was Poeticus, and rightly so.

 

[Thief]

There was a First Cause. That First Cause was not something supernatural or spiritual. It was not God. It was a naturally existing force or interaction. A Fundamental Force even more fundamental than gravity or electromagnetism. Someday science will find a way to unify the four Fundamental Forces into a single, all-encompassing force. This will be the origin of the universe, the First Cause, the First Interaction.

"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force..." Max Plank

There is in fact something behind the existence of those Fundamental Forces. That "matrix of all matter" is not God, nor is it a conscious or intelligent mind. I believe it is another naturally existing Fundamental Force or Fundamental Interaction that science just hasn't figured out yet.

Not buying that.

Substance would then beget the living.

Not buying that.

But in any case....'may the Force be with you!'
hehehehehehe

 

[Runewolf1973]

Not buying that.

Substance would then beget the living.

Not buying that.

But in any case....'may the Force be with you!'
hehehehehehe

What substance are you referring to? Matter is 99.9999% empty space.

 

[Desert Snake]

There was a First Cause. That First Cause was not something supernatural or spiritual. It was not God. It was a naturally existing force or interaction. A Fundamental Force even more fundamental than gravity or electromagnetism. Someday science will find a way to unify the four Fundamental Forces into a single, all-encompassing force. This will be the origin of the universe, the First Cause, the First Interaction.

"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force..." Max Plank

There is in fact something behind the existence of those Fundamental Forces. That "matrix of all matter" is not God, nor is it a conscious or intelligent mind. I believe it is another naturally existing Fundamental Force or Fundamental Interaction that science just hasn't figured out yet.

'naturally existing force' that...what, came from nowhere? This is sci-fi, not science, but it's interesting.

 

[Runewolf1973]

'naturally existing force' that...what, came from nowhere? This is sci-fi, not science, but it's interesting.

...has always existed in some form. Where did God come from? I'll hold more faith in the existence of a naturally existing force or First Cause yet unknown to science than an all-powerful, man-like being.



---

 

[Desert Snake]

...has always existed in some form. Where did God come from? I'll hold more faith in the existence of a naturally existing force or First Cause yet unknown to science than an all-powerful, man-like being.



---

Sure, but why? You're just guessing, it's no more real than Cthulhu.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Sure, but why? You're just guessing, it's no more real than Cthulhu.

Really? We agree there was a First Cause right? Something happened, something occurred to result in the formation of everything we know to exist. There was an interaction of some sort, we just don't know exactly what that interaction was. It can be said that the First Cause WAS a Fundamental Interaction of some sort...a Force. Perhaps you believe that Fundamental Interaction or Force was a divine, supernatural being. I believe it was something naturally existing.

 

[Desert Snake]

Really? We agree there was a First Cause right? Something happened, something occurred to result in the formation of everything we know to exist. There was an interaction of some sort, we just don't know exactly what that interaction was. It can be said that the First Cause WAS a Fundamental Interaction of some sort...a Force. Perhaps you believe that Fundamental Interaction or Force was a divine, supernatural being. I believe it was something naturally existing.

Idk, I don't assume an 'interaction', you're in theory mode again.

Since neither of us has proof, we're just discussing, but it's your thread and if you want to convince me you'll have to do better than this.

L'shalom.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Idk, I don't assume an 'interaction', you're in theory mode again.

Since neither of us has proof, we're just discussing, but it's your thread and if you want to convince me you'll have to do better than this.

L'shalom.

There are only theories. No one can say what exactly happened, but we can say fairly confidently that something happened. That something that happened was an interaction of some sort. Whether it was divine interaction or something natural is the only question left.

 

[Sonofason]

...has always existed in some form. Where did God come from? I'll hold more faith in the existence of a naturally existing force or First Cause yet unknown to science than an all-powerful, man-like being.



---

Why is that?

 

[Runewolf1973]

Why is that?

It's just too easy to say "God did it." I want real answers and that's what science does, it finds real answers. Humans have been saying the same thing for centuries about diseases and natural disasters or phenomena. All those things that humans once thought were acts of God were acually natural occurrences and not caused by something divine. Just because science still has some unanswered questions regarding this universe is no reason to go off the deep end and bilk it up to some concocted fantasy.

 

[Desert Snake]

Just because science still has some unanswered questions regarding this universe is no reason to go off the deep end and bilk it up to some concocted fantasy.[/QUOTE]


That is precisely what this thread is, it's complete speculation, you seem to think it 'makes sense', but it has serious unanswered questions.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Just because science still has some unanswered questions regarding this universe is no reason to go off the deep end and bilk it up to some concocted fantasy.[/QUOTE]


That is precisely what this thread is, it's complete speculation, you seem to think it 'makes sense', but it has serious unanswered questions.

Unanswered questions are one thing. Making claims that some magical, all-powerful, all-knowing being definitely exists which no one has ever seen is putting fantasy before logic. Nature being what it is dictates a natural cause, not something fantastical or divine.

 

[Desert Snake]

Unanswered questions are one thing. Making claims that some magical, all-powerful, all-knowing being definitely exists which no one has ever seen is putting fantasy before logic. Nature being what it is dictates a natural cause, not something fantastical or divine.

Give me one reason to think you are correct. the 'something from nothing' argument is not an argument, it's saying "I don't know".
You aren't employing 'logic', you are employing imagination.
that's great.
but give me some backup reasons. You haven't.

 

[Desert Snake]

It's your thread, your claim. no proof. no good theories. nada.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Give me one reason to think you are correct. the 'something from nothing' argument is not an argument, it's saying "I don't know".

Science, along with myself have no problem saying "I don't know" what that First Cause was. God believers on the other hand claim to already have the answers, and their answer is "God did it." I just don't buy it. It is a cop-out, like a get out of jail free card.

 

[Desert Snake]

Science, along with myself have no problem saying "I don't know" what that First Cause was.

Great, but you are claiming to know. You can't say. 'I don't know, but I do know..'

makes no sense.