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The first living thing could not have come into being by random chance, therefore, God Almighty created all things. Just 1 proof.

SavedByTheLord

Well-Known Member
Evolution only says that species can develop from other species. It does not say how species begin. They definitely can and do evolve, and it appears that humans are related to other apes just as cows are related to whales.


This is not an atheist vs believers issue. Believers benefit, because knowledge of evolution reaffirms that Genesis is not about the creation of our planet. It is about something else. Our round planet is not created in Genesis. Our Sun is not. Our stars are not. It is about the creation of something else: something very important but not a planet.


I don't think that is faith. That is argument. It is an attempt to control people rather than have them choose God for moral reasons. If we want to control people and argue them down into doing things we are creating a Christianity in our own name, not in Christ's name. God is invisible, and we don't get to prove God exists or that people must obey God. It does not appear to be God's way. People are drawn to God because of God's mercy. People believe in God in spite of those who say they are foolish. I think its always been that way, and you can't change it. Trying to change it: God probably won't support such efforts. It would be nice if we had control of people's choices, but we do not. Evolution is unrelated. It is about this natural world.
The existence of God, according to the word of God, is not a matter of faith.

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: - Romans 1:19-20
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
The existence of God, according to the word of God, is not a matter of faith.

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: - Romans 1:19-20
The Bible is nothing but word salad with nothing of substance to show for it. That verse is ridiculous.

It's complete puesdo mumble jumbo that means absolutely nothing.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
The first living creature could not have come into being by random chance. It is impossible.

A first living creature would have to have had at least 100,000 amino acids in a particular sequence. This is extremely generous. The smallest free-living thing has over 1,300,000 base pairs. I also have not included having over 500 million other atoms in it.

The odds against a sequence of 100,000 amino acids (20 types, 39 counting handedness) coming to be by random chance is (10 to the 160,000 power) to 1. That could never have happened anywhere in the universe over the supposed 13.7 billion years of its existence. It actually is impossible because no concentration of that amount of amino acids would happen by random chance. There are other factors that make it impossible. It would be a miracle.Where would such an amount of amino acids even occur in nature to even make a first creature? They must be in very near proximity to where the first creature came to be. In water they would immediately diluted and chemical reactions would destroy it. And above ground or in space, it would be destroyed by the the sunlight. So the first creature is impossible.

If such a great miracle did occur, the poor creature will not survive long at all. It is not protected from its environment. Chemical reactions will begin to destroy it within seconds. Which is just another problem. It would take too long to assemble itself. Destruction will happen faster than construction.
The poor creature cannot feed itself. It will also not be able to repair itself.
It will not be able to have any offspring. So it could never exist. So even if it did come into existence, it would die quickly and could not have offspring

And that is just to get to the first living thing. There would have to at least 1 trillion other miracles to produce all the living creatures by evolution. That would be about 70 miracles for each of the supposed 13.7 billion years.

That is impossible to have happened by random chance.
Therefore, God created all things.

A simple elegant proof.
Assume no God. Show the contradictions. Therefore, God exists.
The proof that the Bible is the true word of God is also easy.

The atheists have been deceived into believing that the first creature could come into existence by random chance.
Never has been observed. Simple analysis shows it is impossible. There is no record that it ever did.
So, the evolutionist has the burden of proof.
Hydrogen is the most abundant atom in the universe; 92% of all the atoms. Water or H2O is the second most abundant molecule in the universe, behind only H2 or the hydrogen molecule. It is not coincidence that water and hydrogen bonding hydrogen are keys to life. The universe was pre-proportioned with the needs of life in mind.

Water is also an important part of star formation, which then can fuse hydrogen for nuclear energy release. Water as ice, in deep space, expands relative to liquid water. This expanded solid ice can be used to help make stars, easier than with just gases. As ice collects and become pressurized by gravity, it liquifies and the expanded ice decreases volume by 10%. This can cause a sudden cascading collapse of the water star, to light the fusion fire.

The energy bandwidth of life is between the energy within H2 and H20. H2 has more energy pound for pound that any reduced organic food that life makes or uses. Water maximizes this bandwidth compared to any other solvent. If we replace H2O with say an alcohol, like methanol, the H2 and alcohol, energy bandwidth, is smaller. Water maximize the chemical energy available in the hydrogen based universe. Hydrogen is the future of energy.

If you look at the system of water and oil, both have hydrogen in common. Water has oxidized hydrogen that can form hydrogen bonds. Oils have reduced hydrogen, with oil held together with Van der Waals forces. These two extreme states of hydrogen do not mix well at ambient conditions.

If we mix water and oil and shake they will temporarily form an emulsion; Italian dressing, but will separate into two layers if allowed to settle. This water and oil affect; separates into two layers, is an important part of life and make sure things are not randomly ordered. This creates a natural design for order.

The water in life causes the organics, like protein and DNA to packed and configure in ways that minimize the potential within the water. This is because the fluidity of life is based on secondary bonding forces, with the hydrogen bonding of water, far more powerful than the Van Der Walls forces of the organics. Water packs proteins into their active shapes, since these shapes, minimize the potential in the water. None of this is based on random, but repeat folding of protein is ordered by the intrinsic chemical design that was already part of the early universe.

In the Miller experiments of the 1950's, they were able to make amino acids and other precursors of life starting with simple molecules; H2O, CH4, NH3, etc., using an electric arch to simulate lightning. Lightning is created by water in thunder clouds. Water helped to make the precursors of life with its lightning trick; by design. This may be how precursor found in deep space are created.

One thing that the Miller experiments produced were complex oils and tars, which are not stressed like they should be. It is likely fossil fuels are misnamed. These may have been here before life, and were later infiltrated by life. The oils and tars are the missing links in terms of abiogenesis due to the bias of science traditions.

One of the practical problems in Abiogenesis, is making protein from the amino acids precursors, that Millar and others showed, can not be made easily in water. The problem is polymerization of amino acids to make protein, give off water, which is inhibited by the reaction occurring in bulk water. This can be solved by an oil based polymerization to use surface tension to remove the water.
 

SavedByTheLord

Well-Known Member
Hydrogen is the most abundant atom in the universe; 92% of all the atoms. Water or H2O is the second most abundant molecule in the universe, behind only H2 or the hydrogen molecule. It is not coincidence that water and hydrogen bonding hydrogen are keys to life. The universe was pre-proportioned with the needs of life in mind.

Water is also an important part of star formation, which then can fuse hydrogen for nuclear energy release. Water as ice, in deep space, expands relative to liquid water. This expanded solid ice can be used to help make stars, easier than with just gases. As ice collects and become pressurized by gravity, it liquifies and the expanded ice decreases volume by 10%. This can cause a sudden cascading collapse of the water star, to light the fusion fire.

The energy bandwidth of life is between the energy within H2 and H20. H2 has more energy pound for pound that any reduced organic food that life makes or uses. Water maximizes this bandwidth compared to any other solvent. If we replace H2O with say an alcohol, like methanol, the H2 and alcohol, energy bandwidth, is smaller. Water maximize the chemical energy available in the hydrogen based universe. Hydrogen is the future of energy.

If you look at the system of water and oil, both have hydrogen in common. Water has oxidized hydrogen that can form hydrogen bonds. Oils have reduced hydrogen, with oil held together with Van der Waals forces. These two extreme states of hydrogen do not mix well at ambient conditions.

If we mix water and oil and shake they will temporarily form an emulsion; Italian dressing, but will separate into two layers if allowed to settle. This water and oil affect; separates into two layers, is an important part of life and make sure things are not randomly ordered. This creates a natural design for order.

The water in life causes the organics, like protein and DNA to packed and configure in ways that minimize the potential within the water. This is because the fluidity of life is based on secondary bonding forces, with the hydrogen bonding of water, far more powerful than the Van Der Walls forces of the organics. Water packs proteins into their active shapes, since these shapes, minimize the potential in the water. None of this is based on random, but repeat folding of protein is ordered by the intrinsic chemical design that was already part of the early universe.

In the Miller experiments of the 1950's, they were able to make amino acids and other precursors of life starting with simple molecules; H2O, CH4, NH3, etc., using an electric arch to simulate lightning. Lightning is created by water in thunder clouds. Water helped to make the precursors of life with its lightning trick; by design. This may be how precursor found in deep space are created.

One thing that the Miller experiments produced were complex oils and tars, which are not stressed like they should be. It is likely fossil fuels are misnamed. These may have been here before life, and were later infiltrated by life. The oils and tars are the missing links in terms of abiogenesis due to the bias of science traditions.

One of the practical problems in Abiogenesis, is making protein from the amino acids precursors, that Millar and others showed, can not be made easily in water. The problem is polymerization of amino acids to make protein, give off water, which is inhibited by the reaction occurring in bulk water. This can be solved by an oil based polymerization to use surface tension to remove the water.
What was the longest amino acid chain that Miller‘s experiment produced?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
So there is no evidence that abiogenesis has occurred or could occur, yet it is assumed that it did happen, even though I just proved it is impossible.
No, there is plenty of evidence.

As a science denier you do not even understand the concept of evidence. Would you like to learn? It will not take long.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
What was the longest amino acid chain that Miller‘s experiment produced?
That was not the goal of his experiment.

You keep asking questions that tell us that you are scientifically illiterate.

Now here is a question for you. There is a correct answer:

How many fossils are needed to demonstrate that the theory of evolution is correct beyond a reasonable doubt?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
The existence of God, according to the word of God, is not a matter of faith.

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: - Romans 1:19-20
Now you just claimed that the Bible is wrong. :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Please quit while you are behind.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Nonsense.
It is irreducibly complex. There is no advantage until all parts are in place and there are many things that are needed for any vision to occur.

Please explain how anything that is irreducibly complex evolves.

Please explain how the eye came to be. It is irreducibly complex. It happened independently more than once. Please explain all of these.

Please explain how flight came to be. It is irreducibly complex. It happened independently more than once. Please explain all of these.

Please explain how blood clotting came to be. It is irreducibly complex.

Please explain how the first multi cell creature came to be.

Please explain how the bone tissue came to be.

Please explain how the citrus cycle came to be. It is irreducibly complex.

Please explain how ATP came to be and how the first creature that used it evolved that capability. The mechanism is irreducibly complex.

In fact, there are many things in living things that are irreducibly complex. Please explain how any of them evolved.

The science seems to have identified mitochondrial Eve and the recent origin of x chromosome Adam. This matches recent creation and destroys evolution. Why?
No, nothing has been shown to be "irreducibly complex". The work of Behe, which you are referring to, was refuted a long long time ago. Most of it was refuted before his book was even published.

Please, stop repeating lies from creationist sites. Even if you believe this lies by repeating them you are breaking the Ninth Commandment.
 

SavedByTheLord

Well-Known Member
No, nothing has been shown to be "irreducibly complex". The work of Behe, which you are referring to, was refuted a long long time ago. Most of it was refuted before his book was even published.

Please, stop repeating lies from creationist sites. Even if you believe this lies by repeating them you are breaking the Ninth Commandment.
Well Behe believes in billions of year. It is only about 6000 yeara.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
So science just assumes answers now. That is not science.
You have to quit breaking the Ninth Commandment. No one takes someone that claims to be a Christian but keeps breaking the Ninth Commandment seriously.

No, no one in the sciences is making any assumptions. One has to be able to demonstrate that one knows the answers.
 

SavedByTheLord

Well-Known Member
You have to quit breaking the Ninth Commandment. No one takes someone that claims to be a Christian but keeps breaking the Ninth Commandment seriously.

No, no one in the sciences is making any assumptions. One has to be able to demonstrate that one knows the answers.
Read your post to yourself
 

SavedByTheLord

Well-Known Member
I know how you are breaking the Ninth Commandment. I doubt if you even have a proper understanding of it.

Are you willing to learn? If you are not you can only continue to call your own God a liar.
Wow. Really throwing out the false accusations. What a crock. I have never called God a liar. What a false accusation.

For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. - Matt 12:37

In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. - Luke 12:1
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Wow. Really throwing out the false accusations. What a crock. I have never called God a liar. What a false accusation.

You did. The problem is that you lack the education to see how you called your own God a liar. And you are probably too afraid to learn how you did that.

I asked you a long time ago if you wanted to learn. You ran away and told us that you would rather claim that your own God is a liar by that action.
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. - Matt 12:37

In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. - Luke 12:1


Yes, quoting a book that is beyond your comprehension is a typical response of the ignorant.


Are you willing to learn? If you are without fear. If you really believe in your God, then you should be without fear.


Here is a clue, you are far too arrogant in your belief. You can read the words, but you cannot understand them.
 
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