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The FLOOD, God's Great Failure?

MansFriend

Let's champion the rights of all individuals!
Saying it was or wasn't a failure depends upon whether or not you understand what the objectives were in mind. People assume God is or should be some kind of tyrant that makes everyone into these perfectly behaving automatons. So, when they survey the tendencies of people's behavior and see a good many people sinning, they try to push the blame onto God.

What I have come to understand is the enemy to God is who actually believes there should be a monolithic system imposed where people are turned into automatons under a system of law that takes away their individual sovereignty.

So, it isn't really fair to accuse God of failing when you are holding him accountable to do that which is actually the goal of God's enemy, in his own way based upon what he deems moral and right. What is "right" to this being is that everyone becomes a minion in his global central control and command "utopia". However, this is what God would deem as a person having their "breath of life" drowned out, because their individual sovereignty was taken from them.

Think of the flood of Noah's time as the implementation of a system of global tyranny. The "waters" that put an end to people's "breath of life" is the suffocating lies and falsehoods that people should give up their individual sovereignty to a central authority.

How does such a flood work? The propagation of lustful and sinful behavior is what ultimately leads people to call out for this type of a system to be implemented and the more sinful people become the more there will be an inclination to yield up individual sovereignty to such a system. Thus, the people yield up all of their individuality in the name of benefiting the collective.

However, for God to succeed, is all He needs is a faithful remnant who holds true to the principles of individual sovereignty and the attending personal responsibilities that go along with such rights. And, for this remnant to have somewhere upon the planet, even if it is a small city or small nation, to keep and preserve this system, by their own free will and choice, not because they were forced to, which goes completely against the whole premise of a Godly society.

This type of Godly society also cares for the collective, but it puts first and foremost the individual and unalienable rights of individuals and treats this as the bedrock of a good and moral and happy society. It deems that true "life" must include classic liberty and that to take this away is to take away life itself. If people want to live in sin, God won't force them to stop. They will reap the consequences of their own actions soon enough. But, if people are trying to forcibly take away the unalienable rights of those who are devoted to God, then you have a real fight on your hands.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Did you say; Here is a gift for you to keep forever?

Well, yes. It is implicit. Because a gift is such that it belongs to the receiver. Otherwise, it would not be a gift. It would be a loan.

When you give a gift, do you warn that it might be taken back at any time?

Ciao

- viole
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Success depends on the goal.
If he wanted to punish.. the flood was an A1 success.. gold medal effort.
Is that what he wanted to do, punish?


Genesis 6:5-7, 13, 17
5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.

13 And God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh has come before Me, for the earth is filled with violence through them; and behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

17 And behold, I Myself am bringing floodwaters on the earth, to destroy from under heaven all flesh in which is the breath of life; everything that is on the earth shall die.
Nope, don't see any intent to punish at all. Only to destroy. Things is, punishment
pun·ish·ment
(pŭn′ĭsh-mənt)n.
1. The imposition of a penalty or deprivation for wrongdoing:​


is only meted out where the person being punished can understand its reason, or at least others who are not being punished can comprehend the reason. Think all the people around the world knew why they were being killed by the flood? How about all the innocent children and the birds of the air? Did they merit punishment? Nope. God simply wanted them all off the face of the planet.

.
 

neologist

Member
And you think that people who think of themselves are not doing well?

Which is puzzling. If you think the world is full of them, why would you ask anyone how she is doing? That seems pointless.

By the way, I was thinking of my car. Which is quite new and probably does not go to heaven when it is bombed.

Ciao

- viole
My question "How are we doing?" Referred to "we" as the human race. You answered according to your POV.

Perhaps you simply misunderstood.
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Well, yes. It is implicit. Because a gift is such that it belongs to the receiver. Otherwise, it would not be a gift. It would be a loan.

When you give a gift, do you warn that it might be taken back at any time?

Ciao

- viole

I see your point but i was also raised in a human environment where people snub their noses at a loan. God however, or the Son of God anyway. Didn't care around a lot of extra baggage. Even said it was better to simply have what you need when you need it. So there's something to be learned there.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
My question "How are we doing?" Referred to "we" as the human race. You answered according to your POV.

Perhaps you simply misunderstood.

Oh, ok, I misread.

So, do you think we are doing bad? And this is because we rebelled?

Ciao

- viole
 

neologist

Member
Is that what he wanted to do, punish?
Nope, don't see any intent to punish at all. Only to destroy. Things is, punishment
pun·ish·ment
(pŭn′ĭsh-mənt)n.
1. The imposition of a penalty or deprivation for wrongdoing:​


is only meted out where the person being punished can understand its reason, or at least others who are not being punished can comprehend the reason. Think all the people around the world knew why they were being killed by the flood? How about all the innocent children and the birds of the air? Did they merit punishment? Nope. God simply wanted them all off the face of the planet. .
You seem to confuse punishment with consequence,
If you get hit by a car while jaywalking, that would be a consequence.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
I see your point but i was also raised in a human environment where people snub their noses at a loan. God however, or the Son of God anyway. Didn't care around a lot of extra baggage. Even said it was better to simply have what you need when you need it. So there's something to be learned there.

God however, or the Son of God anyway? What do you mean? I thought the son of God is God, too.

So, it is a loan, after all.

Ciao

- viole
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
Are you saying that we should have been created as obedient puppets? One consequence of our free will is the possibility of rebellion.

Perhaps God's bold strokes: the flood, the confusion of language, etc. are acts designed to advance the outworking of his purpose, the promise he made to Adam and Eve before they sinned and which he reaffirmed at Genesis 3:15.

That purpose, restated often throughout the Bible is for humans to live forever on this earth free from war and crime and sickness and death. Even those who have lived and died will receive their opportunity. See John 5: 28,29.

So, was the flood failure? It certainly was a consequence of man's failure to set his own standards.

I don't believe in God. From my perspective we aren't obedient or disobedient to any ethereal know-it-all who's keeping score.

The claim made very often that God is "infallible" is what is at issue here. Juxtaposed against GOD'S OWN "INSPIRED" WORD: "for I am sorry that I have made them"

Despite all of your attempts to make excuses for what the flood could be indicative of, God makes it clear He felt He made a mistake. What else could the bolded statement above possibly mean? You really, REALLY have to stretch in order to make it out to be "all part of the plan" when the planner Himself is apologizing for His hand in a HUGE part of it.
 
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Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
God however, or the Son of God anyway? What do you mean? I thought the son of God is God, too.

So, it is a loan, after all.

Ciao

- viole

God the Father and the Son of God are two different beings. It's a gift, since this life is like a seed, then we die and get planted in the ground, and get a new body at the resurrection that never dies.
 

neologist

Member
Oh, ok, I misread.

So, do you think we are doing bad? And this is because we rebelled?

Ciao

- viole
Consider what was involved in the rebellion. By eating the fruit, Adam and Eve chose to set their own standards of good and bad. Jeremiah 10:23 rightly reminds us of our deficiency.

In 6000 +/- years we have affirmed Jeremiah's observation
 
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