The Flood & Worldwide Festivals of the Dead — the connection.

[Rival]

Since this religion does not have a corpus or a collection as scripture, making absence of evidence evidence of absence is historically a mythicists approach.

But your point is taken. Actually I am surprised by your knowledge. Who would think of Kemetic religions and know about them!

There are actually many writings, however. Just not a scripture in the Abrahamic sense.

I am a Kemetic, so... I am looking up all this stuff.

 

[firedragon]

There are actually many writings, however. Just not a scripture in the Abrahamic sense.

I know I know. Never read them.

 

[Rival]

Here is basic Wiki search on this topic:

List of flood myths - Wikipedia

Africa[edit]
Although the continent has relatively few flood legends,[1][2][3][4] African cultures preserving an oral tradition of a flood include the Kwaya, Mbuti, Maasai, Mandin, and Yoruba peoples.[5]

5 cultures out of a continent twice the size of Europe. There's basically nothing to write about.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

It’s not that disparate cultures have a festival of the dead..... that’s not it.
These celebrations of the dead are held worldwide on the same day of different calendars — the 17th day of the 2nd month — the Bible says the Flood occurred!!

There you go.

Despite there being no physical evidence for a global flood. Despite the physical impossibility of anything surviving the flood due to the tremendous heat and pressure such an event would unleash. Despite the Bible saying that all life outside the ark died, and we still have fish, plants and whales. That and a misinterpreted Chinese symbol are definitive proof of a global flood.

I am glad we have that all settled.

Whose for lunch?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

It is true then.

A drowning man will grasp at any straw.

Even if he is drowning in a mythical flood. Or perhaps, especially if it is mythical.

 

[Eyes to See]

List of a select number of flood legends from around the world (there are actually dozens more). Notice the origin of the flood legend and the story it is found in.

Flood Legends

Samples from six continents and the islands of the sea; hundreds of such legends are known

Australia - Kurnai

Destruction by Water

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Babylon - Berossus’ account

Destruction by Water

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Babylon - Gilgamesh epic

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Bolivia - Chiriguano

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Borneo - Sea Dayak

Destruction by Water

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Burma - Singpho

Destruction by Water

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Canada - Cree

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Canada - Montagnais

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


China - Lolo

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Cuba - original natives

Destruction by Water

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


East Africa - Masai

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Egypt - Book of the Dead

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Fiji - Walavu-levu tradition

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Humans Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


French Polynesia - Raïatéa

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Animals Spared


Greece - Lucian’s account

Destruction by Water

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Guyana - Macushi

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Iceland - Eddas

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Humans Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


India - Andaman Islands

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Humans Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


India - Bhil

Destruction by Water

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


India - Kamar

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Iran - Zend-Avesta

Destruction by Water

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Animals Spared


Italy - Ovid’s poetry

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Humans Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Malay Peninsula - Jakun

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Humans Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Mexico - Codex Chimalpopoca

Destruction by Water

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Mexico - Huichol

Destruction by Water

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


New Zealand - Maori

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Humans Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Peru - Indians of Huarochirí

Destruction by Water

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Animals Spared


Russia - Vogul

Destruction by Water

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


U.S.A. (Alaska) - Tlingit

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


U.S.A. (Arizona) - Papago

Destruction by Water

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


U.S.A. (Hawaii) - legend of Nu-u

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


U.S.A. (North Dakota) - Mandan

Destruction by Water

Preserved in a Vessel

Vanuatu - Melanesians

Destruction by Water

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Vietnam - Bahnar

Destruction by Water

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Wales - Dwyfan/Dwyfach legend

Destruction by Water

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel

In India there is a Flood legend in which Manu is the human survivor. He befriends a small fish that grows to a large size and warns him of a devastating flood. Manu builds a boat, which the fish pulls until it is grounded on a mountain in the Himalayas.

According to the Chinese flood legend, the thunder god gives a tooth to two children, Nuwa and Fuxi. He instructs them to plant it and to take shelter in the gourd that would grow from it. A tree promptly grows from the tooth and produces a huge gourd. When the thunder god causes torrential rainfall, the children climb into the gourd. Though the resulting flood drowns all the rest of earth’s inhabitants, Nuwa and Fuxi survive and repopulate the globe.

In North America, the Arikara, a Caddo people, say that the earth was once inhabited by a race of people so strong that they ridiculed the gods. The god Nesaru destroyed these giants by means of a flood but preserved his people, the animals, and maize in a cave. The Havasupai people say that the god Hokomata caused a deluge that destroyed mankind. However, the man Tochopa preserved his daughter Pukeheh by sealing her in a hollow log.

The Maya of Central America believed that a great rain serpent destroyed the world by torrents of water. In Mexico the Chimalpopoca version tells that a flood submerged the mountains. The god Tezcatlipoca warned the man Nata, who hollowed out a log where he and his wife, Nena, found refuge until the water subsided.

In Peru the Chincha have a legend of a five-day flood that destroyed all men except one whom a talking llama led to safety on a mountain. The Aymara of Peru and Bolivia say that the god Viracocha came out of Lake Titicaca and created the world and abnormally large, strong men. Because this first race angered him, Viracocha destroyed them with a flood.

The Tupinamba Indians of Brazil spoke of a time when a great flood drowned all their ancestors except those who survived in canoes or in the tops of tall trees.

In Samoa there is a legend of a flood in early times that destroyed everyone except Pili and his wife. They found safety on a rock, and after the flood they repopulated the earth. In the Hawaiian Islands, the god Kane became annoyed with humans and sent a flood to destroy them. Only Nuʹu escaped in a large boat that finally grounded on a mountain.

On Mindanao in the Philippines, the Ata say that the earth was once covered by water that destroyed everyone except two men and a woman

The Soyot of Siberia, Russia, say that a giant frog, which was supporting the earth, moved and caused the globe to be flooded. An old man and his family survived on a raft he had made. When the water receded, the raft grounded on a high mountain.

In the book Target Earth Alan key writes: “Why then should practically all races of men have this legend of a great deluge? Why should people who lived far from the ocean in dry highland country such as central Mexico or central Asia have a legend of a flood? . . . It is difficult to explain why the universal deluge was chosen as the method of exterminating man unless it had been an actual experience. If universal deluge had not been an actuality, then some races would have had their wicked ancestors being eliminated by awesome volcanic eruptions, great blizzards, drought, wild animals, giants or demons.”

Sources: Biblical Encyclopedia Insight on the Scriptures
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200000758#h=1:0-215:0
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1992041?q=Deluge&p=doc

 

[Rival]

Egypt - Book of the Dead

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Preserved in a Vessel

Sorry, what? Where?

The Book of Going Forth by Day (Book of the Dead) is not a text describing stuff that has happened. It's a funerary and mystical set of texts. That's without mentioning there's no mass flood.

 

[Rival]

Is it possible that folks could double check before posting sources that contain absolute nonsense? That would be good.

 

[Eyes to See]

Sorry, what? Where?

The Book of Going Forth by Day (Book of the Dead) is not a text describing stuff that has happened. It's a funerary and mystical set of texts. That's without mentioning there's no mass flood.

Having not read the Book of the Dead I did a little google research. Actually the references to the flood in the Book of the Dead were not that hard to locate doing about a 30 second search:

In his commentary on Genesis, Skinner notes that in 1904 Edouard Naville claimed to have found fresh proof of an Egyptian Flood tradition in a text from the Book of the Dead which contained the following words: (30)

And further I (the god Tum) am going to deface all I have done; this earth will become an ocean through an inundation, as it was at the beginning.


EGYPTIAN FLOOD MYTH
(From the Egyptian Book of the Dead, the Book of Going Forth by Day, translated by Raymond Faulkner)


People had become rebellious. The god Atum said he will destroy all he made and return the earth to the Primordial Water (Nun) which was its original state. Atum will remain, in the form of a serpent, with Osiris

 

[Rival]

And further I (the god Tum) am going to deface all I have done; this earth will become an ocean through an inundation, as it was at the beginning.

I have two copies of this set of texts. I didn't need to Google.

Egyptian, or Kemetic, mythology is cyclical. The world began in the Chaos Waters of Nun, as in many myths, and from these waters came Atum (or Tum) and created the world. At the end of the world, everything will go back to the Chaos Waters of Nun and the world will be made anew again.

This is nothing like the Noahic Flood.

 

[Eyes to See]

I have two copies of this set of texts. I didn't need to Google.

Egyptian, or Kemetic, mythology is cyclical. The world began in the Chaos Waters of Nun, as in many myths, and from these waters came Atum (or Tum) and created the world. At the end of the world, everything will go back to the Chaos Waters of Nun and the world will be made anew again.

This is nothing like the Noahic Flood.

I’ll have to take your word on that as there is not much more information on it. I doubt the above citations were nonsense and it is possible your interpretation is wrong. That does little to occult the fact that the flood myth is so pervasive in earth’s mythology around the world in all cultures.

On a side note, I thought you were a converted sect of some sort of Jew. Am I confusing you with someone else?

 

[Subduction Zone]

List of a select number of flood legends from around the world (there are actually dozens more). Notice the origin of the flood legend and the story it is found in.

Flood Legends

Samples from six continents and the islands of the sea; hundreds of such legends are known

Australia - Kurnai

Destruction by Water

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Babylon - Berossus’ account

Destruction by Water

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Babylon - Gilgamesh epic

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Bolivia - Chiriguano

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Borneo - Sea Dayak

Destruction by Water

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Burma - Singpho

Destruction by Water

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Canada - Cree

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Canada - Montagnais

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


China - Lolo

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Cuba - original natives

Destruction by Water

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


East Africa - Masai

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Egypt - Book of the Dead

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Fiji - Walavu-levu tradition

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Humans Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


French Polynesia - Raïatéa

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Animals Spared


Greece - Lucian’s account

Destruction by Water

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Guyana - Macushi

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Iceland - Eddas

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Humans Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


India - Andaman Islands

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Humans Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


India - Bhil

Destruction by Water

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


India - Kamar

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Iran - Zend-Avesta

Destruction by Water

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Animals Spared


Italy - Ovid’s poetry

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Humans Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Malay Peninsula - Jakun

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Humans Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Mexico - Codex Chimalpopoca

Destruction by Water

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Mexico - Huichol

Destruction by Water

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


New Zealand - Maori

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Humans Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Peru - Indians of Huarochirí

Destruction by Water

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Animals Spared


Russia - Vogul

Destruction by Water

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


U.S.A. (Alaska) - Tlingit

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


U.S.A. (Arizona) - Papago

Destruction by Water

Warning Given

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


U.S.A. (Hawaii) - legend of Nu-u

Destruction by Water

Divine Cause

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


U.S.A. (North Dakota) - Mandan

Destruction by Water

Preserved in a Vessel

Vanuatu - Melanesians

Destruction by Water

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Vietnam - Bahnar

Destruction by Water

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel


Wales - Dwyfan/Dwyfach legend

Destruction by Water

Humans Spared

Animals Spared

Preserved in a Vessel

In India there is a Flood legend in which Manu is the human survivor. He befriends a small fish that grows to a large size and warns him of a devastating flood. Manu builds a boat, which the fish pulls until it is grounded on a mountain in the Himalayas.

According to the Chinese flood legend, the thunder god gives a tooth to two children, Nuwa and Fuxi. He instructs them to plant it and to take shelter in the gourd that would grow from it. A tree promptly grows from the tooth and produces a huge gourd. When the thunder god causes torrential rainfall, the children climb into the gourd. Though the resulting flood drowns all the rest of earth’s inhabitants, Nuwa and Fuxi survive and repopulate the globe.

In North America, the Arikara, a Caddo people, say that the earth was once inhabited by a race of people so strong that they ridiculed the gods. The god Nesaru destroyed these giants by means of a flood but preserved his people, the animals, and maize in a cave. The Havasupai people say that the god Hokomata caused a deluge that destroyed mankind. However, the man Tochopa preserved his daughter Pukeheh by sealing her in a hollow log.

The Maya of Central America believed that a great rain serpent destroyed the world by torrents of water. In Mexico the Chimalpopoca version tells that a flood submerged the mountains. The god Tezcatlipoca warned the man Nata, who hollowed out a log where he and his wife, Nena, found refuge until the water subsided.

In Peru the Chincha have a legend of a five-day flood that destroyed all men except one whom a talking llama led to safety on a mountain. The Aymara of Peru and Bolivia say that the god Viracocha came out of Lake Titicaca and created the world and abnormally large, strong men. Because this first race angered him, Viracocha destroyed them with a flood.

The Tupinamba Indians of Brazil spoke of a time when a great flood drowned all their ancestors except those who survived in canoes or in the tops of tall trees.

In Samoa there is a legend of a flood in early times that destroyed everyone except Pili and his wife. They found safety on a rock, and after the flood they repopulated the earth. In the Hawaiian Islands, the god Kane became annoyed with humans and sent a flood to destroy them. Only Nuʹu escaped in a large boat that finally grounded on a mountain.

On Mindanao in the Philippines, the Ata say that the earth was once covered by water that destroyed everyone except two men and a woman

The Soyot of Siberia, Russia, say that a giant frog, which was supporting the earth, moved and caused the globe to be flooded. An old man and his family survived on a raft he had made. When the water receded, the raft grounded on a high mountain.

In the book Target Earth Alan key writes: “Why then should practically all races of men have this legend of a great deluge? Why should people who lived far from the ocean in dry highland country such as central Mexico or central Asia have a legend of a flood? . . . It is difficult to explain why the universal deluge was chosen as the method of exterminating man unless it had been an actual experience. If universal deluge had not been an actuality, then some races would have had their wicked ancestors being eliminated by awesome volcanic eruptions, great blizzards, drought, wild animals, giants or demons.”

Sources: Biblical Encyclopedia Insight on the Scriptures
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200000758#h=1:0-215:0
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1992041?q=Deluge&p=doc

Yes, various flood myths will have similarities. Do you know why? Because they all deal with a flood. So why would you even include "destruction by water" when that is what happens in a flod.

And of course, for life to go on humans and animals need to have been saved somehow. Toss away that "similarity" too.


Lastly since the obvious way to survive a flood is in a boat toss out that similarity.

Once one throws out the obvious you do not have any similarities.

Now, instead of looking at myths, which actually refute the Bible flood story, why not look at the scientific evidence. You will see why we know that there was no Flood of Noah.

 

[Rival]

I’ll have to take your word on that as there is not much more information on it. I doubt the above citations were nonsense and it is possible your interpretation is wrong. That does little to occult the fact that the flood myth is so pervasive in earth’s mythology around the world in all cultures.

On a side note, I thought you were a converted sect of some sort of Jew. Am I confusing you with someone else?

I was a Noachide

 

[Subduction Zone]

I’ll have to take your word on that as there is not much more information on it. I doubt the above citations were nonsense and it is possible your interpretation is wrong. That does little to occult the fact that the flood myth is so pervasive in earth’s mythology around the world in all cultures.

On a side note, I thought you were a converted sect of some sort of Jew. Am I confusing you with someone else?

Do you know why there are so many flood myths?

There is one reason. People need water. And for anything bigger than simple tribes navigable waterways are almost a must. Guess what happens at times to navigable waterways?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I was a Noachide

Nothing wrong with that. Does one even have to believe the Noah's Ark myth to be one? It appears to be based more upon the "Laws of Noah" than anything else.

 

[Rival]

Nothing wrong with that. Does one even have to believe the Noah's Ark myth to be one? It appears to be based more upon the "Laws of Noah" than anything else.

One has to have the same beliefs as Jews, and Jewish belief about the Flood is as diverse as any set.

 

[Eyes to See]

Many people who celebrate these ancient festivals

I was a Noachide

Oh, that’s right, It had Noah in the name. Okay, so I guessed you moved on from that.

Getting back to the OP, I bring this to people’s attention from time to time, not often mind you. That so many of these ancient celebrations of the dead around the end of October/beginning of November is no a coincidence. If we follow the clues as others have before us we see how they all stem back to one real ancient source, and that is the flood account in the Bible, that took place at that time. The fallen angels had to forsake their materialized human bodies and return to the spirit realm, and their hybrid offspring, the Nepthelim, were destroyed along with the ancient wicked world. These festivals, including Halloween which has its origins in ancient European pagan rites of Samhain, are really all just different dressings of the celebration of Satan and his demons’ war dead during the flood. Every year people all over the world join in with Satan and his demons to celebrate the memory of the fallen dead during the great deluge.

 

[Rival]

That does little to occult the fact that the flood myth is so pervasive in earth’s mythology around the world in all cultures.

I'm definitely on the side that there was some kind of massive flood; I'm just sick of people talking nonsense about Kemetic myths. They're often badly interpreted when the stories are actually very straightforward.

 

[Rival]

That so many of these ancient celebrations of the dead around the end of October/beginning of November is no a coincidence. If we follow the clues as others have before us we see how they all stem back to one real ancient source, and that is the flood account in the Bible

It's much more likely that the festivals coincide with the start of Fall.

 

[Rival]

Oh, that’s right, It had Noah in the name. Okay, so I guessed you moved on from that.

Noachidism
Kemetic Update