The flood

[Bereanz]

Proof that its fiction or proof that it is fiction derived from actual events?

I would say (even as a non-believer) there is always some truth in stories even the garden of eden, I believe it is a story of how man moved from being a hunter-gatherer to being a working agricultural man.

There was no hunting in the garden of Eden.

 

[Bereanz]

You do not have to tell me about all your lines of evidence, maybe one or two. So give me some of your strongest points and argue for them. You must provide evidence for your claims, that is the whole point of this thread.

I am unaware of what uniformitarianism is exactly and what that has got to do with evolution. It seems like different people define it differently. I have a very vague understanding of the "evidence" for the flood.

Ive done that two or three posts back and was met with idiocy on Crack. Im out guys. You win. Have it your way.

 

[Dan4reason]

Ive done that two or three posts back and was met with idiocy on Crack. Im out guys. You win. Have it your way.

: hamster :

 

[McBell]

Ive done that two or three posts back and was met with idiocy on Crack. Im out guys. You win. Have it your way.

I was wondering how long before you ran home tail tucked to claim victory...

Moral of this story:

Don't play chess with pigeons.​

 

[AntEmpire]

There was no hunting in the garden of Eden.

If we're taking everything literally, and nothing outside of the Bible happened? Then sure.

If you take the story of Eden literally then Adam and Eve hid from god.

 

[outhouse]

[youtube]N0Ii_D3uDDY[/youtube]
YouTube - The Center of all Things

 

[darkendless]

Fossil Grave yards

Why are fish fossil's found on Mountain peaks? (Flood that covered the whole earth)

Oh my lord where is your brain?

I do geotechnical engineering which requires us to dig holes everywhere. We find fish fossils up to 500km inland. What you don't seem to understand or ignore, is that uplift occurs. Where i'm sitting right now was, 10,000,000 years ago part of the continental shelf. Tectonic plates move, the earth shifts. Have you never taken science for 13 year olds before?

How could 800,000 million skeltons of vertabrate animals be entombed together in the Karroo formation (South Africa?) (Catastrophic flood)

The above point. Uplift. South Africa has had huge uplift formations before. Look at Johannesburg and Cape Town.

In Australia we have the great dividing range which is littered with fish fossils.

How and why were five million mammoths of siberia frozen to death in solid ice? (Flood)

Shifting geothermic properties. The land likely froze over time trapping the animals there.

How is it that in the water-laid "bone-bed" at Agate Springs, Nebraska, fossil are found of rhinocerous, camel, giant boar, and numerous other animals not indigenous to America? (Flood Deluge)

NPS: Nature & Science» Geology Resources Division

All of the above phenomena refute Uniformitarianism and point to the extreme possibilty of the world wide deluge for their cause. (oh I better qualify that remark: To a rational sane mind, that is)

Yes but in case you completely ignored my points before, geologically the chances of a worldwide deluge is impossible.

You really need to read what people are writing. Either you're ignorant, uninterested in what others have to say, or you're having a laugh watching people waste their time debating you. Either way you're a waste of time.

 

[outhouse]

Proof that its fiction or proof that it is fiction derived from actual events?

I would say (even as a non-believer) there is always some truth in stories even the garden of eden, I believe it is a story of how man moved from being a hunter-gatherer to being a working agricultural man.

its not all fiction from real events. we know exactly where many of the storys were stolen from, others are pure imagination.

adam and eve are pure fiction and you can reach however you want but its all storys based on imagination off what they didnt know

 

[Bereanz]

If we're taking everything literally, and nothing outside of the Bible happened? Then sure.

If you take the story of Eden literally then Adam and Eve hid from god.

Does this mean you are saying this is the first instance of the game "hide and seek" in human history or that God (who sees everything, even if dummies think they can hide from Him ) was "Hunting" for Adam and Eve?

 

[Bereanz]

I was wondering how long before you ran home tail tucked to claim victory...

Moral of this story:

Don't play chess with pigeons.
​

Oh no Im not running, I just give up submitting evidence to this thread. Sorry to spoil the little beaver dance celebration. Cute.

 

[Bereanz]

Oh my lord where is your brain?

I do geotechnical engineering which requires us to dig holes everywhere. We find fish fossils up to 500km inland. What you don't seem to understand or ignore, is that uplift occurs. Where i'm sitting right now was, 10,000,000 years ago part of the continental shelf. Tectonic plates move, the earth shifts. Have you never taken science for 13 year olds before?



The above point. Uplift. South Africa has had huge uplift formations before. Look at Johannesburg and Cape Town.

In Australia we have the great dividing range which is littered with fish fossils.



Shifting geothermic properties. The land likely froze over time trapping the animals there.



NPS: Nature & Science» Geology Resources Division



Yes but in case you completely ignored my points before, geologically the chances of a worldwide deluge is impossible.

You really need to read what people are writing. Either you're ignorant, uninterested in what others have to say, or you're having a laugh watching people waste their time debating you. Either way you're a waste of time.

Ah! You're Australian, that explains everything. A nation that evidently "evolved" from British undesirebles and other human waste. An uplifting and enlightening post all the same. Thanks.

 

[Bereanz]

Shifting geothermic properties. The land likely froze over time trapping the animals there.

This is most unlikely. You havent said how much time either. When it's cold I put on a jumper, it doesnt take much time to think... hmmm...its getting a bit nippy, let's head for warmer climates. Pre flood, evidence shows that climates every where, were very warm (all over). Only after the water cannopy was unleasehed from the firmament and the earth shifted on its axis under the strain, did seasons come about.

10,000,000 years ago? Yeeesh.

 

[painted wolf]

Fossil Grave yards

Why are fish fossil's found on Mountain peaks? (Flood that covered the whole earth)

How did Noah breath at the altitude of the Himalayas?

How could 800,000 million skeltons of vertabrate animals be entombed together in the Karroo formation (South Africa?) (Catastrophic flood)

Thats a lot... a lot more than I've ever heard of... but a lot of the Karroo isn't sedimentary... also, if there are 800,000 million skeletons, then add that to five million mammoths and the rest of the fossil animals and you hundreds of animals per square foot.

How and why were five million mammoths of siberia frozen to death in solid ice? (Flood) [/quote] They aren't frozen in solid ice... they are frozen in permafrost. Big difference.

How is it that in the water-laid "bone-bed" at Agate Springs, Nebraska, fossil are found of rhinocerous, camel, giant boar, and numerous other animals not indigenous to America? (Flood Deluge)

Actually a lot of them are not in flood sediments, but dry fluffy volcanic ash.
So how did that dry fluffy volcanic ash sandwiched between sedimentary layers. Now how can that happen?
Did the flood magically recede and let all those animals back in... just long enough for a volcano to do what the flood couldn't...?

All of the above phenomena refute Uniformitarianism and point to the extreme possibilty of the world wide deluge for their cause. (oh I better qualify that remark: To a rational sane mind, that is)

No the really don't... to a rational sane mind that is.
What they show is a cognitive bias such that information that may refute a deeply held belief is ignored and unsought.

It is painfully easy to learn about non-sedimentary fossil beds.

wa:do

 

[darkendless]

Ah! You're Australian, that explains everything. A nation that evidently "evolved" from British undesirebles and other human waste. An uplifting and enlightening post all the same. Thanks.

I wasn't born in Australia

 

[David M]

Listen Tiger, the OP is a facile assertion that the line drawing proves Evolution, so when I see more than facile assertions from you're camp and less of the vile attitudes, I'll stop mincing about with you mincers.

And yet you keep asserting things without providing any evidence to back them up.

You are making the claims, you have to support them when challenged.

If you don't it will only convince people that you either can't provide evidence or you are a rather ignorant troll.

 

[AntEmpire]

its not all fiction from real events. we know exactly where many of the storys were stolen from, others are pure imagination.

adam and eve are pure fiction and you can reach however you want but its all storys based on imagination off what they didnt know

That's where you'd be wrong. There was a valley (not a garden) where four rivers met. It was a paradise for men thousands of years ago. Now there weren't any talking snaked, and it wasn't where man began but the story none the less came from this valley which was destroyed (banishing men that lived there to a life of working the soil). Even the snake has an origin in the real, an older non-jewish version of Adam and Eve had a snake creator deity, which originated from a real life comet which would've been quite mystical to see back in the day.

As for pure imagination, mankind has trouble with that, there is nothing new under the sun, we take short cuts, even our most fantastic mythical creatures are based on real animals.

 

[AntEmpire]

Does this mean you are saying this is the first instance of the game "hide and seek" in human history or that God (who sees everything, even if dummies think they can hide from Him ) was "Hunting" for Adam and Eve?

No that never happened. There is no magical creator man, or Adam and Eve. And a game of hide and seek with an all seeing god-man would be very short.

 

[outhouse]

That's where you'd be wrong. There was a valley (not a garden) where four rivers met. It was a paradise for men thousands of years ago. Now there weren't any talking snaked, and it wasn't where man began but the story none the less came from this valley which was destroyed (banishing men that lived there to a life of working the soil). Even the snake has an origin in the real, an older non-jewish version of Adam and Eve had a snake creator deity, which originated from a real life comet which would've been quite mystical to see back in the day.

As for pure imagination, mankind has trouble with that, there is nothing new under the sun, we take short cuts, even our most fantastic mythical creatures are based on real animals.

your eden is speculation at best, but your point is noted. This still makes genesis fiction and %99 of the eden story imagination only if they are right about eden which as far as i know is still a heck of a guess at this point. If your wrong then its all imagination. Like most biblical story's if you loo hard enough you can match up anything you want. I have seen another place linked to eden and it depends on who you listen too.

I agree with most of your statement though

like the flood story, we know they based it off older legends possibly due to fossils found high up on mountains, with the hebrews stealing previous works to make there own. I still call this fiction and imagination.

one would have to have proof of some kind and to this day with modern science and huge numbers of christians looking, they have found nothing at all. [except where the story was stolen from]

 

[Bereanz]

How did Noah breath at the altitude of the Himalayas?

Thats a lot... a lot more than I've ever heard of... but a lot of the Karroo isn't sedimentary... also, if there are 800,000 million skeletons, then add that to five million mammoths and the rest of the fossil animals and you hundreds of animals per square foot.

How and why were five million mammoths of siberia frozen to death in solid ice? (Flood)

They aren't frozen in solid ice... they are frozen in permafrost. Big difference.

Actually a lot of them are not in flood sediments, but dry fluffy volcanic ash.
So how did that dry fluffy volcanic ash sandwiched between sedimentary layers. Now how can that happen?
Did the flood magically recede and let all those animals back in... just long enough for a volcano to do what the flood couldn't...?

No the really don't... to a rational sane mind that is.
What they show is a cognitive bias such that information that may refute a deeply held belief is ignored and unsought.

It is painfully easy to learn about non-sedimentary fossil beds.

wa:do[/quote]

The common definition of sediment includes "water"

 

[Bereanz]

I wasn't born in Australia

You beaudy!