The flood

[David M]

Coal beds are not observed to be forming today, which is why you have to invent the "Billions" of years falacy to make the unobservable accpetable.

Yes they are, from peat deposits.

"Peat deposits cover 48,000 km^2 on the lowlands of Riau Province, Sumatra, Indonesia." ~ Supardi, A. D. Subekty and Sandra G. Neuzil, "General Geology and Peat Resources of the Siak Kanan and Bengkalis Island Peat Deposits, Sumatra, Indonesia," in J. C. Cobb, and C. B. Cecil, eds. Modern and Ancient Coal-Forming Environments, (Boulder, Colorado: Geological Society of America, 1993), pp.45-61, p. 45

And of course what your flood model for coal formation fails to explain is the cases of root systems showing that the plants that formed the coal were rooted in the ground below at different levels in the geologic column.

 

[outhouse]

you have to remember they dont play by reasoning, education or logic.

this is exactly the same as asking a 3 year old how magic happens and expecting a decent reply

 

[xanaticus]

I dont know if it was mentioned on this thread, but seem to be the flood that became then a myth in the Bible
Black Sea deluge theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Monut Aararat is also not far from Black Sea's shore
Mount Ararat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The story could really be true. The time fit also with the Biblbical one (~5500BC)
In the Mediterranean space (territories around) where a lot of high developed cultures at that time (the Egyptians f.e.), with scientists who had known that this flood will happen some day. People from Black Sea Lake (before the flood) were probably warned they will be flooded some day, without knowing exactly if it will be tommorrow or in some centuries. The "landing" on the top of Mount Aararat could mean that the survivor(s) had choosen the place of restarting his/their existence there (its to understand that after surviving such a cataclysm you choose a posible higher situated place). The taking of animals on thier boat also expected. They took probably something from every animal they had around thier home -horses, goats, sheeps, chicken- the Bible writers produced surely then the story God-related: "God told him to take 1 pair of every species"

...and there it is the myth...

 

[xanaticus]

Ive read nearly the entire thread and have seen that RedOne77 already mentioned the Black Sea deluge theory.

to Bereanz - the world population started to rise exponentially only with the industrial revoulution (18th - 19th century), as there developed also medicine, much better hygienic standards for the common people and very important ! the decrease of dies at birth. Exactly the science made it posible...From Jesus times to 3 ceturies ago there was no significant increasement of population (I think it doubled only once) and before Jesus times it was even worse. Your calculations are totaly wrong

Please stop to talk about the Bible as being your evidence. No matter how often you will repeat it, the Bible isnt evidence for anything (maybe appart from some historical events of some crowd mentioned there, which really happened - like wars, migration and so on), if you know what evidence or proof means..

 

[DeistPrimate]

I dont know if it was mentioned on this thread, but seem to be the flood that became then a myth in the Bible
Black Sea deluge theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Monut Aararat is also not far from Black Sea's shore
Mount Ararat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The story could really be true. The time fit also with the Biblbical one (~5500BC)...

This flood was actually around 7000 B.C.E.

National Geographic: Noah’s Flood/Black Sea Expedition

It's funny though how world wide deluge proponents claim "all civilizations have a flood myth" which first off isn't true and second off various far flung civilizations have very different content to their myths. If this was the flood Genesis refers to it's a far cry from the literal discription and only proves the Bible to be fallible.

It's never been surprising to me that flood myths are common among human communities, since we invariably set up camp near water.

 

[outhouse]

the BST is all fine and dandy, but we already have a clear picture of how the hebrews stole the sumarian stort and rewrote it to meet there needs changing only names and gods.

a story from 7000 years ago would have never survived, the sumarian flood was not that far off from the biblical flood

we now the river, "euphates" we know the year of the flood and we know a man got on a barge with animals who was washed out to sea and survided to tell the tale. The flood was massive enough human loss would have been extreme.

again this stolen fiction goes with the rest of the OT to a T with how it was wrote and how previous pagan religions were robbed for there storys to create the OT we know. The storys were mever ment to be read literal thats exactly why they added there ficticious spin to previous fables.

allegorical reading is the key phrase here.

to think the flood happened as written in teh bible is a severe case of uneducation.

 

[xanaticus]

a story from 7000 years ago would have never survived, the sumarian flood was not that far off from the biblical flood

why shouldnt survive a story from 7000 yrs ago?? I think the sumarian flood is even older than the the Black Sea flood, and...

Although [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating"]radiocarbon dating[/URL]  of freshwater mollusk remains indicated an age 
of about 7,500 years,  radiocarbon dating in freshwater mollusks in particular 
can be  inaccurate.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_theory#cite_note-mollusk-16"][17][/URL] Such inaccuracies, however, are always in the direction 
of objects appearing older than they actually are (containing less C14 than 
expected),[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_theory#cite_note-mollusk-16"] [17][/URL] so the time given is a maximum age of a freshwater shoreline 
at that location.

...those 7000 yrs are a maximum, the event could have happened earlier

The sumarian flood is sure the flood mentioned in the epic of Ghilgamesh, but there is no reason to use the same flood for all flood stories mentioned in religion books

 

[DeistPrimate]

The sumarian flood is sure the flood mentioned in the epic of Ghilgamesh, but there is no reason to use the same flood for all flood stories mentioned in religion books

The Genesis flood was definitely lifted from the Sumarian myth though.

 

[outhouse]

why shouldnt survive a story from 7000 yrs ago?? I think the sumarian flood is even older than the the Black Sea flood, and...

lack of history on your part

the eaphrates flooded in 2900BC and it was a epic flood, the very flood the sumarian story came from.

why not 7000 years old? because we dont know of any history from that far back. men carved on rocks back then so little is known of any culture.

the sumarian flood predated noahs flood by 1500ish years and look how that tale got twisted up.

all we can get out of noahs story with certainty is that a regional flood might have happened.

 

[AntEmpire]

I dont know what your preception of reality is, so I can't answer that question. My God is reality. What's your reality? Your religion seems to reveal you've got a foot in each camp. You must be pretty good at the splits! And a triped

If you don't tell me what your reality is then i can't prove that the bible isn't an accurate account of it. Of course i imagine if i did such a thing you would either change your view, either of reality or that verse, or maybe just grab a different version of that book to be a pillar in your life.

:clap

I do have a foot in each camp. I am agnostic, i am smart and humble enough to know i don't know god. I am an atheist, god has not revealed itself to me. And like every other human on this earth i know i have 'spiritual' needs, although i don't believe in a supernatural 'soul'

 

[Autodidact]

Can I ask you how much you know about all of these topic from a scientific research position, your answer depends on the depth of the explaination. If you have a deep and thorough understanding from a scienitfic basis, you will already know the creationist poistion on all of these topics, it will take me hours to answer fully. The vibe in this place doesnt really warrant that type of effort and commitment from me, given that people here seem to accept your line drawing in this OP as evidence. I can equally claim your line drawing as evidence for the flood. I feel as though my time would be better spent eslewhere. If you are genuine seeker of truth and not a died in the wool brainwashed Evolution zealot, like many in here, I may be persuaded to supply you further information privately. Or possibly even starting another thread.

Not withstanding there are 100s of books available on this topic, how extensive has your reading been of non evolutionary science books? I.E non religious text

So you got nothing then?

 

[Autodidact]

I think bereanz is an excellent example of a true christian, and for those of us who were considering accepting Jesus as our personal lord and savior, has given us all the information we need about doing that. Thank you, bereanz.

 

[Autodidact]

bereanz: You seem to a very angry person, touchy, at times even vicious, especially as regards your fellow Christians. Why is that? Maybe we can help you learn to be more compassionate and calmer.

 

[Autodidact]

Yes HE did. And we know from scripture that He deeply and heartbreakingly regretted creating us in the first place. I rather wish he hadn't to be completely honest with you. But He did take responsibity upon Himself for mans sinfulness GOOF UPS, which where NOT HIS GOOF UPS or His fault, through Jesus Christ/Himself.

It's never God's fault folks. NEVER!

Of course not. There is no God.

 

[Autodidact]

REad the Bible. I dont elaborate with insects.

Tell me, Bereanz, are you a Christian?

 

[Autodidact]

REad the Bible. I dont elaborate with insects.

If I could prove to you, scientifically, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that evolution is a lieing conspiracy of epic proportion would you believe it?

I would. Of course, first you would have to show me that you understand what it is.

If I showed you that it's supported by the evidence, would you believe it?

 

[Autodidact]

You havent answered the question that preceeded this statement. But the evidence is already out there, you guys only demonstate that you have already rejected it.

"Science" admitted decades ago, the tools they where using as Evidence for proving evolution where inadequate and inconclusive. You guys are cult members, not scientists. Your text is propoganda not science.

Could you provide a cite to that? Thanks.

 

[Autodidact]

You havent answered the question that preceeded this statement. But the evidence is already out there, you guys only demonstate that you have already rejected it.

"Science" admitted decades ago, the tools they where using as Evidence for proving evolution where inadequate and inconclusive. You guys are cult members, not scientists. Your text is propoganda not science.

Fossil Grave yards

Link doesn't work.

Why are fish fossil's found on Mountain peaks? (Flood that covered the whole earth)

Because they used to be ocean beds, before tectonic movement crumpled them into mountains.

How could 800,000 million skeltons of vertabrate animals be entombed together in the Karroo formation (South Africa?) (Catastrophic flood)

If you can find me a published article by a paleontologist that says they have found 800,000,000,000 million vertebrate skeletons in the karoo formation, I will convert to your personal brand of Christianity. If you cannot, we cannot help but doubt your accuracy.

How and why were five million mammoths of siberia frozen to death in solid ice? (Flood)

They found five million frozen mammoths in Siberia?!?! Could you provide the cite to that scientific article please?

How is it that in the water-laid "bone-bed" at Agate Springs, Nebraska, fossil are found of rhinocerous, camel, giant boar, and numerous other animals not indigenous to America? (Flood Deluge)

This is a little more credible, but I'd still like to see the cite.

All of the above phenomena refute Uniformitarianism and point to the extreme possibilty of the world wide deluge for their cause. (oh I better qualify that remark: To a rational sane mind, that is)

Great! Now just show us that they're true and we can discuss them.

 

[Autodidact]

. You win.

Bereanz: May I use this as my sig for a week or two? Thanks.

 

[Autodidact]

Ive done that two or three posts back and was met with idiocy on Crack. Im out guys. You win. Have it your way.

Coal beds where formed by enormous qauntities of dead vegetation, being subject to heavy pressure. Many scientist are of the view that only a process of immense magnitude and world wide effect could account for the coal seams. (flood?)

Can you name ten GEOLOGISTS who think this?