The Folly of Atheism

[QuestioningMind]

The question is not whether a foetus (foitos: "little one" in classical Greek) is "viable"; but whether it is alive.

Science proves that a foetus is alive, from the outset. And how alive ? - as a human being, not as some mythical sort of human acorn.

I completely disagree. Both the sperm cell and the egg were 'alive' prior to joining and no one considers them to be individuals whose life must be protected. The simple fact that both cells have increased their potential to someday become an actual viable human beings still does not make them actual viable human beings. And attempting to claim that a pair of joined cells is somehow equal in value to an actual viable human being is an insult to what an actual viable human being is.

By your silly logic since a sperm cell is 'alive' and has the potential to someday become a living human being then not allowing a sperm cell to reach its potential is the same as murdering a child.

 

[Trailblazer]

That just depends on which polls you read. This survey says 51%. Most people believe in God, international poll finds

That certainly puts a different spin on things, and I think it is more accurate to say that less than 93% of people REALLY believe in God, because IF 93% of people REALLY believed in God, the world would certainly not have all the problems it does.

I also noticed the statistics on how many people believe in an afterlife:

"The poll also found that 51 per cent believe that there is an afterlife while 23 per cent believe they will just "cease to exist". Around a quarter (26 per cent) say they do not know what will happen after death."

So it seems as if those who believe in God also believe in an afterlife.
If only half the people in the world believe in an afterlife for certain, that would also explain why the world has so many problems, because if they do not believe in an afterlife then they can live however that want to in this world, with no accountability. I am not saying that everyone lives that way, but just imagine if everyone believed in an afterlife and that we are all accountable for our deeds in THIS life.

I believe that in the future everyone will believe in God, but that is a long way off:
My belief is based upon the Bible and the scriptures of my own religion:

Isaiah 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

“for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord” means that everyone will have knowledge of Baha’u’llah, who was the Lord of Hosts. As a result of this knowledge, everyone will really believe in God, not just pay lip service to their religions as they do now. This prophecy will be fulfilled after everyone has come to recognize Baha’u’llah.

“The Day is approaching when God will render the hosts of Truth victorious, and He will purge the whole earth in such wise that within the compass of His knowledge not a single soul shall remain unless he truly believeth in God, worshippeth none other God but Him, boweth down by day and by night in His adoration, and is reckoned among such as are well assured.”
Selections From the Writings of the Báb, pp. 153-154

 

[QuestioningMind]

Why ? It's ALIVE isn't it ?

Yes, it is ALIVE. And guess what, every single cell in your body is ALSO alive! Now, tell me, do you actually considered every one of the billions of cells in your body to be an actual INDIVIDUAL, simply because it is ALIVE?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I completely disagree. Both the sperm cell and the egg were 'alive' prior to joining and no one considers them to be individuals whose life must be protected. The simple fact that both cells have increased their potential to someday become an actual viable human beings still does not make them actual viable human beings. And attempting to claim that a pair of joined cells is somehow equal in value to an actual viable human being is an insult to what an actual viable human being is.

By your silly logic since a sperm cell is 'alive' and has the potential to someday become a living human being then not allowing a sperm cell to reach its potential is the same as murdering a child.

 

[Trailblazer]

As I understand it Deeje is a JW and Trailblazer is a Baha'i... what happens to you after you die? Will you still be Baha'i and JW and live happily together in Heaven?

Interesting question. Nobody knows exactly what happens after we die, but certain sources seem to be saying similar things. I think we will gravitate towards those who are at the same spiritual level as we are, based upon everything I have read about the afterlife in books such as these:

The Afterlife Revealed
Private Dowding
Heaven and Hell

It is also in the Writings of Baha'u'llah that Baha'is will be with Baha'is, but I often wonder about that. Maybe it would depend upon how strongly one identifies as being a Bahai and how many Baha'i friends and family they had:

“And now concerning thy question whether human souls continue to be conscious one of another after their separation from the body. Know thou that the souls of the people of Bahá, who have entered and been established within the Crimson Ark, shall associate and commune intimately one with another, and shall be so closely associated in their lives, their aspirations, their aims and strivings as to be even as one soul. They are indeed the ones who are well-informed, who are keen-sighted, and who are endued with understanding. Thus hath it been decreed by Him Who is the All-Knowing, the All-Wise.

The people of Bahá, who are the inmates of the Ark of God, are, one and all, well aware of one another’s state and condition, and are united in the bonds of intimacy and fellowship. Such a state, however, must depend upon their faith and their conduct. They that are of the same grade and station are fully aware of one another’s capacity, character, accomplishments and merits. They that are of a lower grade, however, are incapable of comprehending adequately the station, or of estimating the merits, of those that rank above them. Each shall receive his share from thy Lord. Blessed is the man that hath turned his face towards God, and walked steadfastly in His love, until his soul hath winged its flight unto God, the Sovereign Lord of all, the Most Powerful, the Ever-Forgiving, the All-Merciful.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 169-170

 

[Trailblazer]

I've been told claims. Claims are not evidence.

But the Bible IS evidence.

 

[QuestioningMind]

A classic!

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Ya know Bob, I am none too happy with Him myself so you won’t get an argument from me.

I do not understand the correlation.

If your god was as evil as you have painted?

Then?

Being a **god** it would never be happy with any human progress.

Yet-- here we are. We, on average, live over twice as long as before. In most places on Earth, women need not fear childbirth-- it is no longer a nearly 50% chance of death, to have a baby.

We have gradually recognized what we call Universal Human Rights, over much of the planet.

These are a scant few things of PROGRESS-- that a monster god? Would have put a stop to, long ago.

That pretty much eliminates a maliciously evil deity.

We know there are no good deities-- for the list of Evil that a god would prevent if it was caring AND good, is quite long.

Leaving? What? Callous indifference? That's also evil. See above.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

That was not about what God CANNOT DO, it was about what God CAN DO.

God DID dial it back when he sent Baha’u’llah.

There is no functional difference; either your incompetent god CAN do it or it CAN NOT or it WON'T (which is worse).

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

No Bob, God gave us a reason, and I will explain it to you if you need help understanding it...

“If God had pleased He had surely made all men one people.” His purpose, however, is to enable the pure in spirit and the detached in heart to ascend, by virtue of their own innate powers, unto the shores of the Most Great Ocean, that thereby they who seek the Beauty of the All-Glorious may be distinguished and separated from the wayward and perverse. Thus hath it been ordained by the all-glorious and resplendent Pen… ” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 71

Nope. You cannot use your ancient Bronze Age Book Describing An Evil God as evidence for said god.

Your book is your Claim. You cannot use your Claim to "prove" your Claim.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Only God is NOT fiction, God is real.

Prove it.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Or God might be known to some but not known to all.

And we are back to Maliciously Evil, or Maliciously Incompetent.

Which is it?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

But the Bible IS evidence.

nope. It's the CLAIM. You cannot use your claim to "prove" your claim.

Got anything else?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

History has taught this no less to believers - witness the vast number of Christians, killed for no other reason than their Christian belief, in the Darkest and bloodiest of all centuries, the wonderfully-modern 20th.

Whataboutism. All through history? If you were "out" as an Atheist? You were typically murdered out of hand, with Christian Government Approval.

Only in the Modern Secular Government, can a person be "out" as an Atheist-- but here in 'Murrica? You better watch out-- you are a likely to be murdered as not, if you try to run for Politics.

But let me address your complaint about "killed for no other reason than their Christian belief"

I'm gonna call your bluff: I'm betting that you are going to mention either Hitler or Stalin or, maybe Mao.

And you'd be wrong. For starters? Hitler was a Christian, more specifically Catholic (albeit a rather twisted version-- although no different from many historic Catholics during the Dark Ages, when Christianity was synonymous with Government).

But Stalin killed anyone who was a threat to his government-- he cared not what you believed. Only that you recognized his Supreme Authority. Same for Mao.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

But if you've been told - in this instance by the Gospel - you DO know.

Nope. The "gospels" don't even agree! They each give conflicting stories-- and many of the details are IMPORTANT!

For example: Jesus dies on *what* day? What time did he un-die?

Who was there at his tomb, and what time?

Was the stone in front, or removed when they arrived?

Was the tomb empty, or was there something in there?

Since that is central to the Christian narrative? Don't you think "god" would have made sure the details did not conflict in each story?

SO WHICH "GOSPEL" IS CORRECT? They cannot ALL be right-- but they can all be quite wrong.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

No - that's what Atheists do.

There is proof of God's existence - the universe.

Nope. The Universe is Proof of Universe-creating Pixies.

Wait! That's wrong-- the Universe is Proof of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Wait! That's wrong-- the Universe is Proof of Superman's Childhood Science Project.

Wait....

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Jesus died, then rose from the dead on the third day, then (after 40 days) ascended into Heaven.

Wait! That's not what the OTHER gospels say!

Which one is "right" and which of the others are WRONG?

Or?

Are they all simply wrong?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

The odds are irrelevant - as we DO exist..

Indeed. Created by the Flying Spaghetti Monster-- Bless His Noodly Appendages.

Proof? Pasta with tomato sauce! What more proof could you ask?

Yes - my soul (like all human souls) was created personally by God, to fill and direct the body-mind created by one's parents' act of sexual intercourse.

What's a "soul", please? How much does it weigh? What's it made of? Unobtainum? Incorprealium? Mythogyzium?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

"A mild inconvenience" ?? .

At the very worst-- an Immortal Being? Cannot possibly know what it's like to be Mortal.

Atrocious and near-fatal mental anguish in Gethsemane, being beaten up and ridiculed by Roman soldiers, flogged half-to-pieces by a Roman flogging, carrying a cross through the scornful stares of a city population, nailed to a cross, then left to die in agony (after three hours), in mental desolation and horror. .

*yawn* Immortal. To an IMMORTAL? That is less bothersome than a hangnail, or a minor scratch.

As for carrying the cross? Big Deal-- GOD. He could have carried 100 crosses, if he wished to.

It's not whether we WANT this sacrifice - the truth is, like all members of the human race, we NEED it.

Need? I need no such thing! Speak for yourself.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Quantum fluctuations - random or other - are features of the universe..

You know this... how?

Ergo, they didn't exist before the universe did..

you know this... how?

Ergo, they didn't create the universe.

you know this... how?