The Four Dirty Secrets Against Darwin Evolution

[Kenny]

Another perfect example of circular confirmation bias coupled with argument from ignorance.
Also another perfect example of you ignoring the actual points raised.

I already addressed that nonsense. You ignored that reply as well.

Who is circular... well we can go around in circles on that issue...

So... to conclude and as Jesus noted (paraphrased), nothing will change a mind no matter what is in front of their eyes. " 31 He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”"

I guess spiritual things can only be spiritually discerned and that natural man cannot understand spiritual truths as Paul said.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Who is circular...

You, when you say things that imply that your justification for believing things is the fact that you believe them. As per the quote I was replying to. It says no more then "people don't believe X because they don't believe X".
Implying that "believing X" is the justification for "believing X".

well we can go around in circles on that issue...

You certainly are doing exactly that.

So... to conclude and as Jesus noted (paraphrased), nothing will change a mind no matter what is in front of their eyes. "

False. Verifiable evidence will change my mind. About anything. Literally anything.

31 He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”"

I guess spiritual things can only be spiritually discerned and that natural man cannot understand spiritual truths as Paul said.

This is exactly the circular nonsense I was referring to.

You need to believe in spirits in order to believe in spirits.
Belief in X as justification for belief in X.

Absurd.

 

[Kenny]

False. Verifiable evidence will change my mind. About anything. Literally anything.

then look up "verifiable miracles". If you seek, you will find.

Here's one with a cursory google:

Eleven Medically Verified Healings

From Eric Hatfield’s blog the Way? Sources The source of the first story is the heart surgeon involved, Dr Chauncey Crandall of Florida, a respected cardiologist in the US (as this summary sh…

charismactivism.com

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

then look up "verifiable miracles". If you seek, you will find.

Here's one with a cursory google:

Eleven Medically Verified Healings

From Eric Hatfield’s blog the Way? Sources The source of the first story is the heart surgeon involved, Dr Chauncey Crandall of Florida, a respected cardiologist in the US (as this summary sh…

charismactivism.com

None of those are verifiable. All of them are anecdotal. You have already previously demonstrated that you don't understand the difference.

Also, for every one of such anecdotal healings "after prayer", there are literally MILLIONS of deaths "after prayer".

In every single proper study into the efficacity of "prayer", it has been shown to not make any difference at all.
In fact, in several of these studies the group that were prayed for actually did WORSE when they knew they were being prayed for.
Irony.


In any case, as I said: none of those are verifiable. All of them are anecdotal.
Sorry, but my standards of evidence are a wee bit higher then this anecdotal nonsense.
Anecdotes are not evidence. They are claims in need of evidence.




EDIT:
Here's my own anecdote....

7 months ago, my dad caught an infection of a nasty flesh eating bacteria through a small insignificant bruise on his foot. It ended up in the wrong place and went beserk. He ended up with very severe sepsis and was put into a coma. Within 24 hours, his foot was amputated. This took away the source of the infection but he still had severe sepsis / blood poisoning. All his organs were in severe danger of shutting down. His blood pressure was far too low to keep those organs going.

He then received a heavy dose of medication to keep that blood flowing to keep the organs alive. Nasty side effect of that is that it blooks the small veins which transport blood to body extremities (toes, ears, nose, fingers, etc). His other foot and both his hands / fingers started to turn red. Then purple. Then almost black-ish.

Doctors were extremely worried. We also, off course. After the first week, talks started about further amputation of the other foot as well as fingers or even hands. Leaving him with 4 stomps instead of hands / feet. We had to start thinking about if he would want to live on like that or if we would simply let him drift off and die.

ALL doctors lost hope. They all assumed there were only 2 possible outcomes: further amputation of foot and hands or death.
After a very emotional and mentally heavy day, we went home assuming we were going to have to make a monumentally hard decision the next day.

I woke op at 7 in the morning. I called the hospital at 8 to know how the night went (which I did ever day).
The answer: "Amazingly well. None of us understand this or expected this. Throughout the night, all his values started to balance out. We are lowering medication as we speak as it doesn't look like it's needed any longer. We are going to wait another 24 hours to see where things go from here".

24 hours later, the medication was completely stopped. The dark purple spots on his hands and foot retreated slowly but surely. Every morning, they drew lines around the edge of the spots and by evening, the spots retreated another half a centimeter. This was skin they all assumed was already dead.

Next week, he will return home with a prosthesis. He walks around as if it's nothing. He drives his car. He goes up and down the stairs. His hands and foot have a normal pink color, as if nothing happened.

YOU, and the people in your link would all have prayed and you would scream "MIRACLE" and believe your prayers were answered.
We are not religious. Nobody prayed. His biology just bounced back.

The guy accross the hall, who DID have people praying for him (I know, because I saw it every single visit) didn't bounce back. He died. From a condition way less severe then what my dad had.




All this to say: anecdotes are a dime a dozen. And sometimes, against all odds, people simply bounce back and their biology overcomes whatever is wrong with them. None of this, including the anecdotes in your link, are outside of the natural possibilities of natural biology and medical practice.

Conversely, no amputee has ever grown back a limb.
Funny that, how "medical miracles" only ever seem to manifest in things that could happen naturally and never in things that are literally impossible.


The "miracle cure" of my dad, was no different from winning the lottery.
No gods are required.




EDIT2:

Another thing you might want to ask yourself.................
If you truely believe that your god performs miracle cures as a result of prayer...
You might want to ask yourself why she allows the health crisis to occur in the first place. I assume that people who pray, pray for good health all the time....

 

[Kenny]

None of those are verifiable. All of them are anecdotal. You have already previously demonstrated that you don't understand the difference.

Also, for every one of such anecdotal healings "after prayer", there are literally MILLIONS of deaths "after prayer".

In every single proper study into the efficacity of "prayer", it has been shown to not make any difference at all.
In fact, in several of these studies the group that were prayed for actually did WORSE when they knew they were being prayed for.
Irony.


In any case, as I said: none of those are verifiable. All of them are anecdotal.
Sorry, but my standards of evidence are a wee bit higher then this anecdotal nonsense.
Anecdotes are not evidence. They are claims in need of evidence.

seek and you shall find... knock and it shall be open to you... ask and it shall be given.

or go back to #421

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

seek and you shall find... knock and it shall be open to you... ask and it shall be given.

Do you ever respond to points raised?
You are like a broken record...

FYI: I edited my post and added an anecdote of my own for your interest. I think you wrote your reply while I was writing it down so you might have missed it. I encourage you to read my edit.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

or go back to #421

And round and round the circular merry goes

 

[Subduction Zone]

seek and you shall find... knock and it shall be open to you... ask and it shall be given.

or go back to #421

Defensive verses are only evidence that even the author of that lie knew he was writing BS. You should be asking yourself why the writers of the Bible had to violate the Ninth Commandment.

 

[Subduction Zone]

None of those are verifiable. All of them are anecdotal. You have already previously demonstrated that you don't understand the difference.

Also, for every one of such anecdotal healings "after prayer", there are literally MILLIONS of deaths "after prayer".

In every single proper study into the efficacity of "prayer", it has been shown to not make any difference at all.
In fact, in several of these studies the group that were prayed for actually did WORSE when they knew they were being prayed for.
Irony.


In any case, as I said: none of those are verifiable. All of them are anecdotal.
Sorry, but my standards of evidence are a wee bit higher then this anecdotal nonsense.
Anecdotes are not evidence. They are claims in need of evidence.




EDIT:
Here's my own anecdote....

7 months ago, my dad caught an infection of a nasty flesh eating bacteria through a small insignificant bruise on his foot. It ended up in the wrong place and went beserk. He ended up with very severe sepsis and was put into a coma. Within 24 hours, his foot was amputated. This took away the source of the infection but he still had severe sepsis / blood poisoning. All his organs were in severe danger of shutting down. His blood pressure was far too low to keep those organs going.

He then received a heavy dose of medication to keep that blood flowing to keep the organs alive. Nasty side effect of that is that it blooks the small veins which transport blood to body extremities (toes, ears, nose, fingers, etc). His other foot and both his hands / fingers started to turn red. Then purple. Then almost black-ish.

Doctors were extremely worried. We also, off course. After the first week, talks started about further amputation of the other foot as well as fingers or even hands. Leaving him with 4 stomps instead of hands / feet. We had to start thinking about if he would want to live on like that or if we would simply let him drift off and die.

ALL doctors lost hope. They all assumed there were only 2 possible outcomes: further amputation of foot and hands or death.
After a very emotional and mentally heavy day, we went home assuming we were going to have to make a monumentally hard decision the next day.

I woke op at 7 in the morning. I called the hospital at 8 to know how the night went (which I did ever day).
The answer: "Amazingly well. None of us understand this or expected this. Throughout the night, all his values started to balance out. We are lowering medication as we speak as it doesn't look like it's needed any longer. We are going to wait another 24 hours to see where things go from here".

24 hours later, the medication was completely stopped. The dark purple spots on his hands and foot retreated slowly but surely. Every morning, they drew lines around the edge of the spots and by evening, the spots retreated another half a centimeter. This was skin they all assumed was already dead.

Next week, he will return home with a prosthesis. He walks around as if it's nothing. He drives his car. He goes up and down the stairs. His hands and foot have a normal pink color, as if nothing happened.

YOU, and the people in your link would all have prayed and you would scream "MIRACLE" and believe your prayers were answered.
We are not religious. Nobody prayed. His biology just bounced back.

The guy accross the hall, who DID have people praying for him (I know, because I saw it every single visit) didn't bounce back. He died. From a condition way less severe then what my dad had.




All this to say: anecdotes are a dime a dozen. And sometimes, against all odds, people simply bounce back and their biology overcomes whatever is wrong with them. None of this, including the anecdotes in your link, are outside of the natural possibilities of natural biology and medical practice.

Conversely, no amputee has ever grown back a limb.
Funny that, how "medical miracles" only ever seem to manifest in things that could happen naturally and never in things that are literally impossible.


The "miracle cure" of my dad, was no different from winning the lottery.
No gods are required.




EDIT2:

Another thing you might want to ask yourself.................
If you truely believe that your god performs miracle cures as a result of prayer...
You might want to ask yourself why she allows the health crisis to occur in the first place. I assume that people who pray, pray for good health all the time....

There is an easy explanation for your dad's recovery. As you know (demonstrated by the complete lack of miracles) God hates amputees. Your father was already careless enough to lose a foot. He realized, even though in a coma at that time, that he better do something quick. So he kicked his immune system into high gear. God will put up with one or two limbs at the most being list. Lose three or more and you really are on his **** list.

 

[Kenny]

Do you ever respond to points raised?
You are like a broken record...

FYI: I edited my post and added an anecdote of my own for your interest. I think you wrote your reply while I was writing it down so you might have missed it. I encourage you to read my edit.

I'm sorry... but you have gone in so many circles, I no longer know exactly what question you still have. Up until now, all I have found is that no answer will ever be good enough so we are back to square one IMV and that being #421

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm sorry... but you have gone in so many circles, I no longer know exactly what question you still have. Up until now, all I have found is that no answer will ever be good enough so we are back to square one IMV and that being #421

That is not square one. That is just the Bible admitting that it is wrong again. I don't think that you will ever understand.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

There is an easy explanation for your dad's recovery. As you know (demonstrated by the complete lack of miracles) God hates amputees. Your father was already careless enough to lose a foot. He realized, even though in a coma at that time, that he better do something quick. So he kicked his immune system into high gear. God will put up with one or two limbs at the most being list. Lose three or more and you really are on his **** list.

Funnily enough (well, I can laugh about it now anyway....) this wasn't the first time my dad went through the needle.

6 years ago, he got admitted to that same hospital, under the care of in fact the same doctors, with an extreme case of hyper calciemy (not sure of english spelling). He had a non-malicious tumor on one of his parathyroid glands. That thing produces a horomone that regulates calcium levels and due to the tumor, it went into complete overdrive. Calcium levels skyrocketted in his body.

He lost 15 kg and suffered major mental setbacks as a result. He was no longer able to for example calculate 7+6. And this is a guy that is very intelligent. His chess score is near grandmaster level. Doctors also thought it was over. Their literal words were that they had never seen a case where someone went so deep into hyper calciumy. Most people die way before it gets that bad. And those that don't, barely recover.

After 6 weeks he left the hospital, still a bit weak and mentally not really fit either.
Another 3 months on and he was back his old intelligent self, whooping chess grandmaster butts on the internet.

Last week at the hospital, that doctor joked by asking me if he could have a sample of my DNA to research, because he thinks my dad isn't human.

 

[SkepticThinker]

you are true to your name!!! you are faithful!

Faithful to what, exactly? And why can't you address the points I raised? This is just a dismissive brush-off from a person not interested in having a serious conversation.

So, here we are again, Kenny. You're just dismissing the points made in response to your posts, without any apparent attempt at a thoughtful response. I point out to you how what you describe could be a totally normal trick of the eye; something we know occurs all the time - and demonstrably so. I even gave you a way to demonstrate it to yourself. I also asked you to consider how and why god is supposedly answering your prayers about selling typewriters, while apparently ignoring the prayers of starving children and their parents.

And what response do I get from you?
Claims that I'm "faithful" and some bizarre remark about "every business has arc shaped letters" or something. Well, great Kenny, what on earth does that mean and how does that address the points being raised?

 

[SkepticThinker]

seek and you shall find... knock and it shall be open to you... ask and it shall be given.

or go back to #421

Perhaps sometime you could provide a response to someone that isn't completely dismissive.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Funnily enough (well, I can laugh about it now anyway....) this wasn't the first time my dad went through the needle.

6 years ago, he got admitted to that same hospital, under the care of in fact the same doctors, with an extreme case of hyper calciemy (not sure of english spelling). He had a non-malicious tumor on one of his parathyroid glands. That thing produces a horomone that regulates calcium levels and due to the tumor, it went into complete overdrive. Calcium levels skyrocketted in his body.

He lost 15 kg and suffered major mental setbacks as a result. He was no longer able to for example calculate 7+6. And this is a guy that is very intelligent. His chess score is near grandmaster level. Doctors also thought it was over. Their literal words were that they had never seen a case where someone went so deep into hyper calciumy. Most people die way before it gets that bad. And those that don't, barely recover.

After 6 weeks he left the hospital, still a bit weak and mentally not really fit either.
Another 3 months on and he was back his old intelligent self, whooping chess grandmaster butts on the internet.

Last week at the hospital, that doctor joked by asking me if he could have a sample of my DNA to research, because he thinks my dad isn't human.

Hypercalcemia:

Hypercalcemia - Symptoms and causes

www.mayoclinic.org

When I saw the thyroid gland being involved I knew I had the right condition.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I'm sorry... but you have gone in so many circles, I no longer know exactly what question you still have. Up until now, all I have found is that no answer will ever be good enough

You have never given me a straight answer to any question.
The circling is entirely on your end.

My question is always the same: where's your verifiable evidence?
All I get in return are meaningless defensive one liners and anecdotes (ie: more unevidenced claims)

 

[Kenny]

You have never given me a straight answer to any question.
The circling is entirely on your end.

My question is always the same: where's your verifiable evidence?
All I get in return are meaningless defensive one liners and anecdotes (ie: more unevidenced claims)

But when I give you a site and all I get is "anecdotal evidence" when the medical profession said otherwise, what more can a person offer?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

But when I give you a site and all I get is "anecdotal evidence" when the medical profession said otherwise, what more can a person offer?

Your side were anecdotes.
It matters not if the anecdote comes from a "medical profession" or not.
It's still anecdotal.

Again, i'm sorry you refuse to understand the difference.

I say "refuse", because I don't think you are incapable.

 

[SkepticThinker]

But when I give you a site and all I get is "anecdotal evidence" when the medical profession said otherwise, what more can a person offer?

A response to that, perhaps?

 

[Subduction Zone]

But when I give you a site and all I get is "anecdotal evidence" when the medical profession said otherwise, what more can a person offer?

Who said that? You should not conflate doctors with researchers. They are more similar to engineers. Many of them do not understand what qualifies as evidence and why.