kjv4me2you
Member
Ever wonder why hell has gates instead of just a gate?
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THE GATES OF HELL
- Thread starter kjv4me2you
- Start date
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
No, I can't say I have. As far as I'm concerned, there are a lot more important things for me to wonder about.
Kolibri
Well-Known Member
Matthew 16:18
"Also, I say to you: You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my congregation, and the gates of the Grave (or "Hades") will not overpower it."
Re 1:18 describes the resurrected Jesus has having the "keys of death and of the Grave." These ones that take part in the 1st resurrection are not all resurrected at once. First the "rock" or "foundation cornerstone" was resurrected by God himself.(Acts 2:24: 1 Peter 2:7) Then early within Jesus' parousia (presence) at the conclusion of the system of things, those members of this congregation that have already died will be resurrected to immortal spirit life. Those of Christ's brothers that are still living as humans will be resurrected to heavenly life as they die afterwards. (Mt 24:3; 1 Cor 15:50-57; 1 Thess 4:13-18)
(Edit: I worded this in a slightly misleading way. Jesus is not part of the 1st resurrection. He is not a member of the congregation - his collective bride.(2 Cor 11:2) So "the gates of the Grave" of Mt 16:18 does not include his own resurrection.)
"Also, I say to you: You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my congregation, and the gates of the Grave (or "Hades") will not overpower it."
Re 1:18 describes the resurrected Jesus has having the "keys of death and of the Grave." These ones that take part in the 1st resurrection are not all resurrected at once. First the "rock" or "foundation cornerstone" was resurrected by God himself.(Acts 2:24: 1 Peter 2:7) Then early within Jesus' parousia (presence) at the conclusion of the system of things, those members of this congregation that have already died will be resurrected to immortal spirit life. Those of Christ's brothers that are still living as humans will be resurrected to heavenly life as they die afterwards. (Mt 24:3; 1 Cor 15:50-57; 1 Thess 4:13-18)
(Edit: I worded this in a slightly misleading way. Jesus is not part of the 1st resurrection. He is not a member of the congregation - his collective bride.(2 Cor 11:2) So "the gates of the Grave" of Mt 16:18 does not include his own resurrection.)
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DawudTalut
Peace be upon you.
Peace be on you.
Metaphor for types of weaknesses done in earthly life.
In Quran, hell is temporary, after proper treatment, people will be out for progress.
JayJayDee
Avid JW Bible Student
What does Jesus mean when he speaks about the gates of "hell"? What is "hell" and what are its gates?
This is the Greek word "hades" which is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew "Sheol". Since the Jews never believed in a hell of torment for the wicked, "sheol" simply meant "the grave".....not individual graves but the common grave of mankind. It was never a place for God to consciously torment the wicked.
How do we know that?
"Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10 "For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten. Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave (sheol) where you are going." (NKJV)
Or....
Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10 "For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; there is no longer any reward for them, because all memory of them is lost. Whatever task comes your way to do, do it with all your strength; because in Sh’ol, where you will go, there is neither working nor planning, neither knowledge nor wisdom." (Complete Jewish Bible)
We all go to this "hell". The reason for "gates" on any place with boundaries is for people to come and go.
We enter hades at death and we are released from hades at our resurrection. Hades gets emptied. (Rev 20:13)
It isn't a place for eternal torment. It is a place of death. There is no one alive in there. (Psalm 115:17)
The "gates of hell" merely mean that death will not be victorious over the Christian congregation.
Jesus claimed a victory over death and so do all obedient ones who put faith in him.
Death will yield to Jesus who has the power to resurrect all who are sleeping in death. (John 11:11-14; 5:28, 29)
This is the Greek word "hades" which is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew "Sheol". Since the Jews never believed in a hell of torment for the wicked, "sheol" simply meant "the grave".....not individual graves but the common grave of mankind. It was never a place for God to consciously torment the wicked.
How do we know that?
"Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10 "For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten. Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave (sheol) where you are going." (NKJV)
Or....
Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10 "For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; there is no longer any reward for them, because all memory of them is lost. Whatever task comes your way to do, do it with all your strength; because in Sh’ol, where you will go, there is neither working nor planning, neither knowledge nor wisdom." (Complete Jewish Bible)
We all go to this "hell". The reason for "gates" on any place with boundaries is for people to come and go.
We enter hades at death and we are released from hades at our resurrection. Hades gets emptied. (Rev 20:13)
It isn't a place for eternal torment. It is a place of death. There is no one alive in there. (Psalm 115:17)
The "gates of hell" merely mean that death will not be victorious over the Christian congregation.
Jesus claimed a victory over death and so do all obedient ones who put faith in him.
Death will yield to Jesus who has the power to resurrect all who are sleeping in death. (John 11:11-14; 5:28, 29)
Treks
Well-Known Member
*waits patiently for the punch line*
kjv4me2you
Member
(Heb 9:27 KJV) And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
After death the judgment. Definitely judgment going on after death.
willyah
Do headaches, regrets, stress, sadness all have the same cause of beginnings? A headache maybe caused by a bump on the head. A regret maybe caused because you didn't go see a friend at the hospital. Stress maybe caused by not paying a bill on time. Sadness maybe caused by an illness. A lot of ways to get to enter yer mind.
Jesus wasn't talking a place after death, in the Earth, outer space somewhere. He was talking about what your own mind does in certain situations.
I don't know why people wanna burn other humans by some God or by some words mistranslated or unable grab the feelings of a teacher from a book. When we do it to ourselves, friends, families, enemies, strangers without any God or Holy Books.
Hell is mental torment.
Unification
Well-Known Member
Psalm 147:13King James Version (KJV)
13 For he hath strengthened the bars of thy gates; he hath blessed thy children within thee.
"Thy children(knowledge of God) WITHIN thee."
Hell is a conscious state of torment mentally, doubt, fear, feeling not good enough, hatred, stress, anxiety, burning desire, burning emotion, anger, lust, no peace, no contentment, sin, negative emotion and outlook. It's being in mental prison because the beast of the bottomless pit (one of the flesh who is carnal/outward/literal/vain has never ending desires of covetry, me me me, lust, evil, etc) is never full, content, at peace, satisfied. One truly doesn't get out until they've paid every last penny for reaping what they've sewed. Leaves one empty, rock bottom, DESOLATE.
We are like god's because we have the ability to create, our realities, kingdoms, cities, our own little world's and empires within and we are capable of both good and evil to each other. We are either loving or devouring. We create peace or distress, love or hate, etc. We create heaven or hell for ourselves and others.
Those spiritually dead are in the grave, separated from God and not whole and are widows, as they are physically alive and are the walking dead until the Christ is resurrected within one's heart and mind. Awake, sleeper and rise from the dead.
The religiously righteous will call anything suffering in the name of the Lord, but they can't discern times and seasons, whether they are suffering righteously or trying to be spoken to and taught a lesson, ignoring God because they are in vain and don't know what it means to be IN the Lord because they are still looking for a Lord to come rescue them and physically conquer the world... Which is the spirit of the antichrist and everything against what scripture teaches. Another great reason for people to be nonchalant and just have the mindset of "Christ will come eventually and just fix everything."
Kolibri
Well-Known Member
This passage is not about Sheol/Hades. In other words it is not about "hell" or "the Grave."
The gates here are city gates to Jerusalem. (Ps 147:2,12)
Likewise the "thee" or "you" was not the individual but the city.
Unification
Well-Known Member
Heck, a lot are even going door to door teaching lies, deceiving and devouring and feeding poison to others because they are blind/covered/veiled, deceived themselves and under subjection to mankind and themselves are sitting on top of their own throne, and not the Spirit.
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Unification
Well-Known Member
It was referring to gates and you have no clue what Jerusalem is... To you it will always be a literal holy city, and yes it was referring to an individual.
I wish that you would learn to seek properly, and see the light. You're in too deep and too conditioned. Your vain religion is more important than knowing God. Your gates are clogged with poison.
Unification
Well-Known Member
Seek counsel from the Spirit, not a few big wigs in NYC. Flood your gates with truth and wisdom of God, not poison.
Kolibri
Well-Known Member
I do not see this as a literal holy city. I see this as once applying to the literal city still known by that name, but no longer. Now I see it as applying to New Jerusalem, that is Christ's bride, his congregation of anointed followers, the "little flock." That is not a literal city though it has specific inhabitants.
But, from previous conversations with you, everything is spiritually inside our own bodies. If I understand you correctly, nothing exists outside of ourselves, and we are to seek a Christianized Nirvana.
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Kolibri
Well-Known Member
May we both apply Luke 11:35 to ourselves.
"Be alert, therefore, that the light that is in you is not darkness."
(Edit: at 2nd glance I can not apply this scripture to make this point. The context is about keeping our eyes focused in contrast to being envious. There is no envy here.)
Unification
Well-Known Member
The scripture is about the single eye within being full of light (truth and wisdom and knowledge of God) dwelling bodily.
The single: whole, two are one, oneness with God, light shining on the east and west evenly, sound knowledge and wisdom of God. The eye: ones perception and ability to know in mind.
Which also, all experienced WITHIN.
allfoak
Alchemist
JayJayDee
Avid JW Bible Student
That is not because there is life after death...this is because all are judged at their resurrection. (John 5:28, 29)
Even the "unrighteous" are given a period of judgment where they will be given opportunity to bring their lives into line with God's requirements. Jesus sacrifice has ransomed them out of death.
It is the wicked who will end up in "Gehenna". This "hell" is not "hades". No one comes out of this place. Like the lake of fire prepared for the devil, this is "the second death"....a death from which no one returns.
Everlasting death is the opposite of everlasting life. This is what the Bible teaches....no torture in eternal flames.
kjv4me2you
Member
jtartar
Well-Known Member
Kolibri,
There is a question about how the term Parousia is used. The first point is; the first definition of Parousia is coming, in concordances. This word was used and meant to speak about the coming of and important person, and the time he would spend with them. There MUST be a coming before there can be a presence. The words coming and presence can be used interchangeably, because any coming shortly becomes presence. Remember, we are waiting for the coming of Jesus! In fact Jesus told his disciples to keep celebrating The lord's evening meal until he comes. We are still celebrating the memorial of his death.
As far as I can determine ALL of Jesus brothers, The anointed, will be gathered together at Jesus' coming, both the dead, being resurrected and the living taken to heaven, at the same time. The scriptures at Matt 24: 30,31. My belief is, this is what is meant by the use of the term, from one end of the earth to the other, and from one end of heaven to the other. That means from every place in existence! This exact time period is also mentioned at 1Thes 4:13-17. Here the scriptures say that the dead are raised first, Then, which means the next thing to happen, the living are taken to heaven with them, together.
This is also what Paul was saying at 1Cor 15:51-53. Read carefully, this Sacred Secret, not all would die, but they will all be changed in the twinkling of an eye, the dead shall be raised, and we shall be changed, both going to meet the lord in the air, at the same time. This also fits in with the scriptures that speak of two men working and one being taken, the other left, and two women grinding at the mill, one taken, the other left. All these scriptures fit the proof that all the anointed are taken to heaven at the same time.
As far as I can tell, there is not one scripture that tells of a resurrection before Jesus COMES, and he has not come yet.
Several scriptures tell that the anointed receive their reward when Jesus comes, Matt 24:26,27, 16:27, 1Cor 4:5, Rev 11:18, Matt 25:31, 34, 40, 1Pet 5:4, 2Thes 1:6,7. Notice verse 7, where it says they who have been suffering tribulation, there would be relief, along with US, meaning Paul and the other anointed ones.
To me, another point is important, all the scriptures were written for us, on whom the ends of the systems fall, 1Cor 10:11. This means that all the things written will be true until we receive the, other scrolls, Rev 20:12.
What did Jesus say about any resurrection, to heaven, John 3:13, and we have warnings about saying a resurrection has already occurred, 2Tim 2:17,18.